Home office consultation on "Firearms Safety".

[MatchFuzee]

From a Facebook group. 

Home office consultation  on "Firearms Safety". Probably the section on Ammunition Components, could be the most worrying. The “Intent” would be to ban any item, bullet, case, etc to stop criminals manufacturing there own ammunition. This could impact on those collectors of inert ammunition and re-enactors like ourselves who display rounds at shows, events, schools, history societies and so on.
If the ownership of a bullet or empty cartridge case becomes illegal, how would that effect our interests

For all of the Home office guidance documents and the actual consultation, link:-
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/firearms-safety

For the Survey, link:-
https://www.homeofficesurveys.homeoffice.gov.uk/s/243NXS/

https://basc.org.uk/home-office-consultation/   Article by Bill Harriman. (Antiques Roadshow).

[andym]

That's not actually what the proposals say.  Note the wording of Question 14:

Q14. To what extent do you consider that the possession of component parts of ammunition with intent to manufacture unauthorised quantities of complete rounds of ammunition should be made an offence?

The "intent to manufacture" phrase is key, I don't see that it would affect collectors of inert ammunition?

Andy

[Chris Hall]

The way I read that Q is, how many of the component parts would need to be possessed to before you could be prosecuted.

 

I handed my Sect 1 in about 16 years ago. I have dummy rounds for my .30, .303, 9mm, .50, .38 etc. Etc. and I have basic reloading kit from the days I had a license. I also have some blank ammunition. So I legally have all the component parts but not necessarily the correct component parts to function with each other and I have no intention of assembling. I know, and anyone who has reloaded knows, you can’t just put any random bits together to make a round. There’s very specific powders, primers, projectiles that are used in combination. Unfortunately I very much doubt the average Joe will understand that. 

[oats and barley]

Of four basic components powder and primers are controlled, brass and lead are not that is their problem.

[utt61]

"Intent" is notoriously difficult to prove, and I suspect that the success or otherwise of legislation related to Q14 would be wholly dependent upon the burden of proof needed to establish the intent. Prima facie, the clear answer to Q14 should be "it should be considered a very serious offence" since the fact that there is intent indicates beyond doubt that potentially serious criminal activity may result. The question is not asking anything about the situation where the intent is not proven, so merely having possession without clear intent is outside the scope of Q14.

That being said, regrettably I have little confidence in those who formulate our legislation nowadays, and there have been far too many unintended consequences recently. I think it is quite possible that an honest answer to Q14 would be subject to misrepresentation.

 

[Chris Hall]

10 hours ago, oats and barley said:

Of four basic components powder and primers are controlled, brass and lead are not that is their problem.

But not controlled if purchased as a blank. 

[attleej]

Dear All,

 

As it happens I have been talking today to the Home Office officials responsible for these matters but about another issue.  I can assure everybody that they do actually know what they are doing.

Andy, has put his finger on the issue with his remarks regarding Q14.   

John

[oats and barley]

19 hours ago, Chris Hall said:

But not controlled if purchased as a blank. 

I have just spent an hour talking to my RFD, who's shop is now click and collect.as nothing was  booked, the call was directed to his mobile at home. what has blanks or Chinese fireworks got to do with it powders and primers are controlled and you need the respective licence to possess so you cannot legally have all the component parts  you do not have all the legal components  and this would also be impossible because of the specified calibres

[Chris Hall]

So a .303 blank doesn’t have a primer or powder?

 

A 7.62mm blank doesn’t have a primer or powder?

 

A 9mm blank doesn’t have a primer or powder?

 

yes they are assembled in to a blank but take them apart and they are component parts which are normally controlled. 
 

I work with live 7.62mm, 9mm, 5.56mm and I also work with the blank versions. They come from the same manufacturer with the same primers and the powder is similar (but not the same). 
 

What I’m trying to say is that even though some parts are controlled, it hasn’t really made it more difficult to obtain those parts. If the intent is there, those that wish to commit crime, will. 

[oats and barley]

I was trying not to elaborate i shoot and reload calibres  .303/ .243. 5.56/223/22/250/357 /38 and i need a licence i cannot assemble or possess an 9mm even if i had the components the point is IF YOU AINT GOT THE LICENCE YOU CANT HAVE THE ROUND 

[Chris Hall]

Exactly, if you don’t have a licence, you can’t legally have the round.

But the these controls were implemented to prevent the illegal manufacture of ammunition. They haven’t though, as I said, all the criminals do now is purchase blanks and disassemble them. 

[lowfat]

I call bullshit  its illegal to own a firearm without a certificate already. Has it stopped the criminal element? Its just more control for control sake

 

[andym]

13 hours ago, lowfat said:

I call bullshit  its illegal to own a firearm without a certificate already. Has it stopped the criminal element? Its just more control for control sake

 

There is a fundamental problem that laws only affect the law-abiding, which seems to have escaped a number of people's attention.

I'm surprised that there isn't a bigger issue with gun crime, bearing in mind how porous our borders seem to be when it comes to drugs.  The average street criminal might have to make do with a Webley he bought in the pub, but I'm sure that any of the Eastern European gangs have no problem obtaining as many automatic weapons as they need.

Andy