finally a Ferdinand #3

[draganm]

wasn't sure we would ever see another one, but KW collection states they have 40% of one, including this unmistakable piece

 

 

[rog8811]

Would be good to see what 40% consist of....

[draganm]

Well based on what I've read, most of these were blown up after they broke down and  could not be recovered as German army retreated and tried to prevent enemy capture/repair/re-use of their AFV's.   Based on that

They probably have some of the wheels, running gear, chunks of shattered case-mate, maybe an 88mm-L71 cannon. The real trick will be, (even after you locate two  Maybach HL120 V12 engines),  finding the paired Siemens 500 watt generators and Electric drive motors.  The Copper scrap in them would have just been to valuable after the war .

Would love to hear one though, it must be quite a racket with all 24 cylinders going

[radiomike7]

I presume you took the 500W from Wiki, the generators were  actually rated at 500kW for the pair although the two 300 bhp  engines were not quite capable of maxing them out.

[draganm]

interesting. Do you have a source for this?

I'm struggling with 500KW  since even with today's electrical engineering advancements a 250Kw unit still takes up a small trailer.  The stuff i have from the 50's has absolutely huge electric motors that make very little power, as little as 1HP for something the  size of a 5 gallon  bucket . Conversely, I would expect their generators would also have been very inefficient

here's a towed 250kw unit today  , 20 foot long x 8 foot wide box

hard to imagine 2 of these in a Ferdi? and this just the engine+generator, not the final drive motor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XO48bt12qs

However the Wiki article on the power-pack does basically re-affirm?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VK_4501_(P)

Quote

merged respectively with a Siemens-Schuckert 500 kVA generator, generated the necessary electric power to operate each of the two Siemens 230 kW (312.7 PS) individual-output electric motors

Are there any electricians in the house ? :)

[draganm]

well some quick searches seem to confirm, i know it can't possibly be 230 watts, a trained cyclist can do that on a bicycle:) 

The motors are huge, look to be approx. to a 50 gallon drum

[motorfahrer]

Porsche had experience on electric drive. The Austrian Hungarian Army had the M16 Generatorzugwagen C Zug where a tractor with an electric generator provided power to itself and the trailers to move great loads up small mountain roads or could travel on rails. He came from a electric company  first to Lohner and then to Austro Daimler. The Mercedes Mixte was his brainchild too.

Motorfahrer

  

[draganm]

more parts, Can't make out top piece, more than likely internal bulkhead. Some nice road wheel pairs

some questions posted on their FB page abut whether they have  a Ferdinand or an Elephant. Differences are  roof plate (with/without cammander Cupola), the front plate armor (with/without Ball MG), or the very first pic they posted of engine deck-plate. That would point clearly at a Ferdinand based on the 1 remaining example of each showing cooling intake grills

Elephant currently at Bovi

Kubinka Ferdi, mathces WCC piece

[draganm]

really good pics here, look at what appears to be a  field modification on pic 24 to keep soviet sappers from stuffing petrol bombs/charges up into this cavity in the  rear of vehicle(engine exhaust port?)

http://svsm.org/gallery/elephant/IMGP3201

[draganm]

another interesting photo of the right/rear corner of vehicle. Why you ask there's a video of  a Soviet heavy Machine-gun blasting away at this location. A few seconds later what appears to be same vehicle on fire and this area scorched of paint.   talk about "close combat" , did they just get the metal hot enough to ignite rounds inside?  at 1:11 in

            . Always wondered why, now i wonder  is it because of this port? Is it a Vision port (no slit), a place to chuck out grenades? If you know please chime in .

does not appear any armor penetration occurred here, though at 2 minutes in the same veicle it's really burning

 

[Pzkpfw-e]

9 hours ago, draganm said:

 

 

some questions posted on their FB page abut whether they have  a Ferdinand or an Elephant. Differences are  roof plate (with/without cammander Cupola), the front plate armor (with/without Ball MG), or the very first pic they posted of engine deck-plate. That would point clearly at a Ferdinand based on the 1 remaining example of each showing cooling intake grills

It's an Elefant.

It's an Elefant, as the name was changed on 1 May 1944, by order of the OKH.

The post-Kursk upgrades (The most visible external alterations being, the addition of a ball-mounted MG 34 in the hull front,a new commander's cupola (modified from the standard StuG III cupola) for improved vision, re-designed armored engine grates (for better bullet and shrapnel protection) and the application of Zimmerit anti-magnetic mine paste, were carried out between January & April '44.

9 hours ago, draganm said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Pzkpfw-e]

9 hours ago, draganm said:

another interesting photo of the right/rear corner of vehicle. Why you ask there's a video of  a Soviet heavy Machine-gun blasting away at this location. A few seconds later what appears to be same vehicle on fire and this area scorched of paint.   talk about "close combat" , did they just get the metal hot enough to ignite rounds inside?  at 1:11 in

            . Always wondered why, now i wonder  is it because of this port? Is it a Vision port (no slit), a place to chuck out grenades? If you know please chime in .

does not appear any armor penetration occurred here, though at 2 minutes in the same veicle it's really burning

One thing to remember, is that the vast majority of "Combat films", were staged. So these are taken after the Germans had abandoned the battlefield. The majority of the Ferdinands, were abandoned after running over mines & their running gear were damaged too badly, for the crews to repair; or by mechanical failure, mostly their engines & a lack of spare parts to repair them. Only 3 suffered armour penetrations, one hit by a heavy shell on the roof, two more by 76.2mm hits on the flanks.

The shear weight of them, meant recovery was extremely difficult, requiring 5 Sdkfz 9s, to tow one.

Thus the Ferdinands shown burning, were either set alight by pouring petrol into the engine louvres & ignited, or a smoke grenade was let off, for the purposes of filming them.

The DP28 LMG, shown firing at one, would be completely incapable, of doing anything bar scratching the paint.

It's a pistol port. Early Panthers had them too.

 

 

[draganm]

not sure i follow, if it was officially re-named Elephant in May 1944, and this vehicle  was destroyed prior to 1944, like at Kursk in 1943 prior to vehicle modernization, then it would be a Ferdinand no? 

Also having a hard time believing that footage was staged, there are shells exploding just yards away from the Soviet combat infantry.  Surely you wouldn't risk trained combat troops like that for a video.

[Bob Grundy]

They probably would, a different world then.....

Quote

 

 

[Pzkpfw-e]

13 hours ago, draganm said:

not sure i follow, if it was officially re-named Elephant in May 1944, and this vehicle  was destroyed prior to 1944, like at Kursk in 1943 prior to vehicle modernization, then it would be a Ferdinand no? 

Also having a hard time believing that footage was staged, there are shells exploding just yards away from the Soviet combat infantry.  Surely you wouldn't risk trained combat troops like that for a video.

The Soviet's attitude towards their citizens, wasn't exactly one of care!  The soldiers may even have been from a Shtrafbattalion, (penal battalion), so "Run past that tank, or I'll shoot you". The name is related to the date, all the surviving vehicles were remanufactured prior to May '44. So on 30th April, they're all Ferdinands, from 1st May onwards, they're all Elefants. 

[David Herbert]

Ahh, but what if it was blown up prior to 1 May, and so ceased to exist from the point of view of the army. Do the bits become bits of Elefant which they never were when they were part of a functioning vehicle ? I think that if rebuilt into a reconstructed vehicle, it would be correct to call it a Ferdinand or Elefant depending on the finished build standard.

David

[draganm]

based on photo posted by the KWC on FB, it would appear that the Deck armor plate they have in their collection matches this vehicle captured at Kursk.

Source   http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Panzers.html

I hope they post more pics and dig up more parts in their storage sheds. This one could be fun to watch