portugal Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 This 1931 Vickers Carden Loyd stiil exist in Portuguese Army museum, Oldest vehicle in our museum, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 A lot of people will like this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Wargaming Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 i think most people seeing Carden Loyd would think tankette, while actually this vehicle looks to be a Light Dragon Mk II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben.. Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 It's not a light Dragon. As the thread suggests, it's a Vickers (Carden Loyd) utility tractor. looking forward to seeing your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Wargaming Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Ben, perhaps you can point out to me where the thread suggests it is a Vickers Utility Tractor? It certainly isn't, the Utility being much smaller with only two road wheels per side - see Vickers Works photos below This is the 1932 personnel Carrier version - again quite different Another picture with drivers, for scale showing the size of the vehicles Here is a Vickers photo of the high sided artillery tractor of 1931, from which the Light Dragon II was developed. The right date, the right shape, the right size, and the right suspension. There were many variants and prototypes built for different countries. It would be very interesting to hear any information the museum has about its vehicle and how it go there. The photos I have used are digital images from two Vickers Works photo albums held by Beamish Museum, who have provided the images to me and given me permission to use them electronically. Edited October 7, 2016 by Vintage Wargaming stylistic: "the images" for "them" and extra photo added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 More important. Are there plans to get the vehicle running? UK and Portugal have been allies for centuries, so not suprising British Arms companies such as Vickers would sell there. But how did it get there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben.. Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Yes I understand the utility tractor is the smaller one you posted a picture of. Vickers/Carden Loyd had several tractors, commercial and military and truck tractors built on the same early platform as the example from Portugal. I also appreciate that the light dragon was developed from this vehicle. My point (apologies for not being clearer) is that it is one of these earlier tractors and not a light Dragon as you suggested. A light Dragon II has a different type of suspension than the Portuguese example. As far as I'm aware there are no surviving light Dragons. I have some Vickers pictures and period adverts showing these early tractors, based on the early, pre Dragon design. I'll dig them out when I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I'd love to restore a Light Dragon. Does anyone know if even a partial machine has survived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portugal Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 I'd love to restore a Light Dragon. Does anyone know if even a partial machine has survived? This one has survived ....eheheheheeh.... We are interested to see photos, or if is possible any one that survived ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 amazing how exposed those guys look in the last pic, literally sitting ducks for a sniper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Wargaming Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Yes I understand the utility tractor is the smaller one you posted a picture of. Vickers/Carden Loyd had several tractors, commercial and military and truck tractors built on the same early platform as the example from Portugal. I also appreciate that the light dragon was developed from this vehicle. My point (apologies for not being clearer) is that it is one of these earlier tractors and not a light Dragon as you suggested. A light Dragon II has a different type of suspension than the Portuguese example. As far as I'm aware there are no surviving light Dragons. I have some Vickers pictures and period adverts showing these early tractors, based on the early, pre Dragon design. I'll dig them out when I get home. This is D42, the Artillery Tractor Demonstration Model at Chertsey in 1929 This is the prototype Vickers 2 ton tractor, taking part in the February 930 trials at Wool, here towing a field gun and limber A single 3 ton tractor prototype was delivered in early June 1930 but discarded as having no benefit over the 2 ton in 1932 The Tractor Truck mated a 30 cwt lorry body with a fully tracked chassis based on the 2 ton tractor and which came in a number of variants. Three vehicles were purchased by the British Army for trials but were rejected for service Here are a number of versions: Tractor Truck 1936 China Tractor Truck Standard 1935 Tractor Truck tipping body 1935, also Metropolitan Water Board 1936 Tractor Truck Turntable and Trailer 1935, Turning Circle 26ft wit Load. Overall length with Corner extended 26'6" Tractor Truck Aero Starter 1935 Tractor Truck Pipe Carrier 1935 The suspension (drive wheel and four road wheels) isn't the same as the 2 ton tractor, and therefore not Dragon Mk 1, 1a, II, or Tractor Truck, or Utility Tractor, all of which in any case wouldn't fit the given date of 1931. It's also different to D42, the artillery tractor prototype. Which really leaves the vehicle in the last photo on my previous post (artillery tractor 1931 high sides) the only viable suggestion so far, to fit with the date, body style and suspension. The later version of the 2 ton tractor used on the tractor truck does look similar to the Portuguese vehicle but dates from 1935/6 which postdates a 1931 vehicle. It would be helpful to have a side on photograph of the vehicle in the Portuguese Army Museum to help further with identification. Obviously it would be simplest if the Museum told us what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portugal Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 Ohhhh very good photos , many thanks, but I think that our Vickers is diferent from the others on photos , look the exhaust is in right lateral side on back (yes, you dont see it , but was there) here are some photos , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portugal Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 Here is one original photo take in central Lisbon, with an AA 7,5cm S.A. Anti- aircraft gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Wargaming Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Is that of the actual vehicle which is now in the museum, do you know? And did the army have just the one or a number of them? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Wargaming Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Ohhhh very good photos , many thanks, but I think that our Vickers is diferent from the others on photos , look the exhaust is in right lateral side on back (yes, you dont see it , but was there) here are some photos , This isn't a problem for the high sided 1931 artillery tractor, which is the closest suggested match so far. Thank you for the additional photos, they are really helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portugal Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 Is that of the actual vehicle which is now in the museum, do you know? And did the army have just the one or a number of them? Thanks Portuguese Army bought six of them, I have an photo with all of them, but dont know where is, I am going to look for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben.. Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 More Vickers tractor pictures FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx42 Rick Cove Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 [TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD=bgcolor: #CCFFCC, align: left]Seems there were some in China too. Chinese Vickers Carden-Loyd amphibious tanks and tractors [/TD] [TD=align: right][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD]The provincial government of Kwangtung purchased 15 of Vickers Carden-Loyd A4E11 amphibious tanks between 1933 and 1934, and with them came light and medium Vickers-Armstrong tractors as anti-aircraft guns prime mover.However, most of these vehicles were lost in the battle of Kwangtung(1938-1939) during the Sino-Japanese War(1937-1945). [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Regards Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portugal Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 I found the photo, here in 1930's all of the Vickers with AA, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.