What's the rarest WW2 British tracked vehicle?

[ajmac]

After seeing the old early war Cruiser tanks (A9, A10) tucked up the corner of the Tank Museum the other day this question came to mind. The ubiquitous Sherman stands alone in its popularity, quantity of survivors and restored running machines but what about other British used tracked vehicles? Are there any possible restoration projects to bring any BEF era machines back to running condition?

Edited May 8, 2015 by ajmac

[Gordon_M]

I can think of one but don't shoot me for pointing it out ... :wave:

 

The British took delivery of precisely one Eliason Motorised Toboggan, which turned up intact in the Highlands about five years ago, went on E-Bay, and was sold back to the US.

 

It only had one track - that's how rare it was

[simon king]

After seeing the old early war Cruiser tanks (A9, A10) tucked up the corner of the Tank Museum the other day this question came to mind. The ubiquitous Sherman stands alone in its popularity, quantity of survivors and restored running machines but what about other British used tracked vehicles? Are there any possible restoration projects to bring any BEF era machines back to running condition?

 

I'd like to see the Tank Museum completing their collection of British designed and manufactured tanks so would hope that the A24 Cavalier and A30 Challenger soon figure somewhat higher on the restoration list that where they currently appear to languish.

 

Come to think of it, what has been fundamentally restored from a wreck or a less than promising starting point (as many private individuals seem to be able to achieve) - as opposed to just kept running - in the museum's workshops.

[Adrian Barrell]

I'd like to see the Tank Museum completing their collection of British designed and manufactured tanks so would hope that the A24 Cavalier and A30 Challenger soon figure somewhat higher on the restoration list that where they currently appear to languish.

 

 

Hear hear!

[ajmac]

Come to think of it, what has been fundamentally restored from a wreck or a less than promising starting point (as many private individuals seem to be able to achieve) - as opposed to just kept running - in the museum's workshops.

 

Most of that kind of work was done way back in conjunction with Bob Grundy as well as other organisations....I had a good look around the Ram Kangaroo, it even has the radial in the back and it was restored from a range target.

 

Its not not for me to name names but the museum has had run ins in the past when farming out restoration work to companies that's why mutually beneficial swaps are perhaps less fraught. Perhaps Bob could comment, what was the working relationship back in the day of TAG?

[eddy8men]

I found an A 9/10 cruiser wreck over xmas and have been mulling over the possibilities of restoring it. is that rare enough

[simon king]

Most of that kind of work was done way back in conjunction with Bob Grundy as well as other organisations....I had a good look around the Ram Kangaroo, it even has the radial in the back and it was restored from a range target.

 

Its not not for me to name names but the museum has had run ins in the past when farming out restoration work to companies that's why mutually beneficial swaps are perhaps less fraught. Perhaps Bob could comment, what was the working relationship back in the day of TAG?

 

Alastair - my point is that why should the Tank Museum have to farm out restorations or rely on swapsies. As a national museum with a staffed, fully equipped workshop and presumably plenty of goodwill to call upon if required,, surely there should be the in house capability, desire and drive to undertake a full range of restoration work without the need to rely on these alternatives. If individuals can do it, why shouldn't what is arguably the best tank museum in the world be doing the same with vehicles of national importance - ie the last survivors (Cavalier) or sole home based examples (A30 Challenger).

 

Look at what you've done with the Loyd (i'm sure you do every day) or Adrian's or Tim's Shermans -or Rick's Cromwell - or any number of privately managed and financed restorations. I just don't see any projects of similar magnitude being undertaken in-house by our national museum, which should be equally capable of churning out such restorations.

[ajmac]

Perhaps there will be a change at the museum now that the restoration centre has opened having consumed millions to design and build. At the moment the work is mostly undertaken by volunteers, either directly or via the Friends.

[draganm]

I don't know how your tank museum is run, but if it's like the typical public pr private institution, then the biggest difference between it's capabilities is bureaucracy and overhead costs. With a one man show you have almost zero overhead, the facility/garage is part of the primary dwelling so water, lights, taxes are all paid at the same time. Decisions are made quickly and efficiently, with no waste. All resources are maximized and utilized to their full benefit.

 

With a large public institution overheard is tremendous, just the labor costs are ridiculous from the director, assistant director, director of maintenance, on an on. For example, in a big educational institution here which is supposed to be a "public service " , it's no unusual to see a million dollars in salary over 3 people. Not to mention things like electric, water, building maintenance etc. are going to be substantial because your catering to the public and have to meet safety and occupancy standards set by law.

 

Decision making? Forget about it. It's typically a Goat rodeo of committee's and little chiefs and when a decision is finally made the money spent is squandered and spent as wastefully as possible. Typically, your most qualified and motivated people will not stay long, burning out as they see their talent under-utilized and their frustration levels reach unbearable levels.

 

So I think sending work out is really best, in the long run it's cheaper, you get a better product, and the museum can focus on important stuff like "what color should we paint the lobby?"

[Lauren Child]

There's no reason why museum's can't undertake these sorts of projects, and I've seen it work at Duxford, both on light and major restorations. I've also seen the challenges in funding, organising a group of disparate volunteers into a team, and managing the logistics of running a restoration. It's by no means an easy task.

[Bob Grundy]

In a previous post I was asked to comment about working on a project for the Tank Museum. Two tanks were restored from range wrecks A11 Matilda started 1988 and took 5.25 years and Churchill AVRE also started in 1988 and nearly 11 years.

At that time I was dealing with George Forty and Neville Anderson and the relationship was fine, no interference whatsoever. Expenses for parts used were paid promptly without any query, however I was honest at all times so that is what I expected. The tanks were with me to restore for the TM at my place of business and I was in control.

[antar]

In a previous post I was asked to comment about working on a project for the Tank Museum. Two tanks were restored from range wrecks A11 Matilda started 1988 and took 5.25 years and Churchill AVRE also started in 1988 and nearly 11 years.

At that time I was dealing with George Forty and Neville Anderson and the relationship was fine, no interference whatsoever. Expenses for parts used were paid promptly without any query, however I was honest at all times so that is what I expected. The tanks were with me to restore for the TM at my place of business and I was in control.

 

Remember those days well Bob, you very kindly were allowing me to restore my Mk 3 ANTAR at your premises. Antar was there for 4 years July 88 to August 92 when I boldly took it on its first trip out to Stoneleigh Warwickshire under its own power...young and confident.