Markheliops Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Hi gents. I was driver training today in Lymington when our CVRT Scorpion developed a rather unusual fault. The trainee driver went to give a little right stick but the tiller went all the way back and lost his right hand steering. We pulled the vehicle over to the kerb and stopped. The right hand tiller was like a limp wrist and when fully back did nothing to the tracks. I jumped down to have a look and lifted the gearbox plates, half expecting to see fluid coming from one of the steering pipes but there was no signs of a leak at all. I checked the O/S sprocket and it would appear the vehicle was attempting to make a neutral right turn as it kept jolting backwards and forwards. We turned the engine off, had a play with fluid levels etc and when we went to re-start the engine, nothing from the starter motor! Electrics are there, lights, ignition etc but nothing from the starter. I checked the gearbox selector to ensure the box was indeed in neutral just in case as if in gear the CVRT will not start. It was in neutral. After a while the right hand tiller came back to life but I can't check the steering as I can't start the engine. I returned with the Foden and recovered the CVRT with a full lift back to the workshop. I am due to look at it again tomorrow to see if I can work out what has happened. I'm not a CVRT buff so wondered if anyone has come across this type of fault before? If I think logically about it - I would suspect one of the steering master cylinders pistons has got stuck in and then released itself. I can't think why the engine won't turn over unless it is some safety device I am unaware off but to my knowledge the only thing affecting the starter operation is if it is still in gear. I know the starter circuit has a thermo cut out device in it but I can't see it being this. The only thing I done to the CVRT before we went out was to replace the flasher unit as it was U/S but we re-started the engine more than 5 times before the above happened. Any advice greatly appreciated. Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Hi Mark, Steering ... you mention having a play with the fluid levels, if it had lost some fluid it may well be under the toeboard in the drivers compartment where the master cylinders are, this will not flow into the gearbox area, wondering if it was leaking out of the piston end of the cylinder, although you say it is now alright. Piston could have stuck in. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I've experienced both of these problems before. Andy's Striker lost steering in the arena at Beltring last year. One of the steering callipers locked on, we changed the master cylinder and it was fine after that. I've also had the starter fault, everything was working then all of a sudden no starter. After taking the decks off we found the wire to the thermal trip had become detached. It would be worth checking both of these. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Thank you for your assistance gentlemen. Sirhc - I want your babies!!!! I stripped the CVRT down today and found the thermo switch wiring had come off the O-ring. Re-installed the wiring and the starter sprang into life. As for the steering fault. I'm not sure as the steering has come back. I shall do as you have both suggested and look at the callipers too but I'm thinking a brake fluid change will not hurt and may stop the fault happening again. I shall strip the calliper down too and ensure everything is free. Thanks chaps. I shall add a few pics when I have a mo. Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Mark Richard Banister has master cylinder rebuild kits for £15. Dont forget to use hydraulic oil not brake fluid! Cheers Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 There's always the new master cylinder option....! http://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=445 If you get new seals, they need to be soaked in oil for a while before you try and fit them, otherwise they will split when you try and put them over the piston. I know this from experience! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guykay Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Not sure what you mean by thermo switch & O ring Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Guy The end of the J60 starter motor has two connections. The larger of these is the negative connection. The smaller has a single wire attached, held on with a nut, for the thermal cut out. Because of its location and small size it can be quite difficult to tighten properly, and can therefore have a tendency to work loose, which if it does will prevent the starter motor operating. As Chris can testify it is particularly annoying if this happens after youve put everything back together, as the only way to reach it is to remove the decks, drivers seat, and drivers firewall. I assume this is what Chris and Mark are referring to. Cheers Timbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guykay Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 All is now clear, thanks Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 My final word on the subject...! You can see the second, smaller connection in this shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I can remember after one of my many breakdowns in Germany, and after the fitters had worked on my Scorpion, we had similar trouble, after restripping the vehicle, the fitter hadn't connected the same cut off connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I was chatting to a former REME mechanic yesterday, who reckoned that water contamination of the hydraulic fluid could be the cause of the steering problem; apparently the water in the fluid can boil, leading to exactly the symptoms described. When the fluid cools down again the problem goes away. A fluid change should do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummermark Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hi, I had a similar steering problem on a Sabre that I had that was supposed to be a ground up restoration. Instead of checking the cylinders silver paint was just put on the top! Included are pictures before and after the rebuild. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Looks like a familiar story. The problem is that the m/c's sit in a compartment under the drivers floor, which will collect and hold water if left for any period of time, and knacker the cylinders. When I bought my sabre the main brakes were well and truly sh**gged, predominantly due to severe corrosion of the mc. It was very much sold as seen so I had no problem with that but I do know the chap who owned it previously regularly used it on the road with kids in which is a bit scary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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