ransomesmg6 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hello, I have recently purchased a AEC Matador and through speaking to one of its previous owners I have managed to obtain a photograph of when he got it back from Ruddington ex- army sale in 1970's after paying approximately £400 in very good cosmetic condition (seems to be polished paintwork), and having words with the current person in possession of the lorry today, who has a wealth of knowledge, has said it quite unusual for them to be in such good condition! In the picture you can clearly see the number 78 RD 97 and what I think is the auction lot number '315' in the cab window. So, can anyone tell me any of the military or previous history to the 1970's Ruddington ex- army sale. Also on the cab door of the Matador it has the letters 'NERY',below some kind of emblem/ symbol, what does this stand for? I have taken a photo of the photo, as we have no scanner, not sure how its going to turn out, but may give you some idea! Regards Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hi Henry, I would say that those pictures that you have attached are from a more recent sale than 1970 (although they could well be). I saw this lovely Matador about 8/9 years now at the Hollowell Steam Show when it was owned by Paul Rhodes. Below are a couple of pictures, one from 2003 (scanned copy of a normal picture) and one from 2004 (a digital shot). Hopefully they are of use to you. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter4456 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 A very interesting vehicle! 'Nery' refers to L (Nery) Battery, Royal Horse Artillery. This was a famous action at Nery on 1st september 1914 when the battery, armed with 13 pounders, halted the German advance and won 3 VCs in the process. The Battery still exists and was equipped with 25 pdrs and 4.2" Howitzers in the 50s and 60s when it was part of 2nd Regiment, Royal Artillery. During this time it was based in Germany, Malaya and the UK. Perhaps your Matador was one of the Battery's gun tractors. The RLC museum at Deepcut may well be able to help with the Vehicle History Card. Let me know if you need any more help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ransomesmg6 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Thanks for your reply's Peter and Scott! Your post has certainly made this quite interesting Scott! The photos of the matador that you say are from around 8 to 9 years ago you have posted of what was supposedly my now matador can't possibly be!!!! The reason for this line of thought is that about 8 to 9 years ago the matador that i have just purchased would of looked something like this: So, the photo that the person who purchased it from Ruddington, must of given me a photo that has no relation to the Henley matador that I now own, or the matador in Scott's photos has been repainted to look like army matador with number 78 RD 97 as in the photo i was given which i think to be highly unlikely!!!! Can anyone shed any light onto this??????? Regards Henry Edited March 30, 2012 by ransomesmg6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter4456 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The 'Ruddington' photo and Scott's of '78 RD 97' look like the same vehicle to me - and nothing like the Henley vehicle which you now own! The plot thickens............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) It certainly does thicken! It seems that the pictures in your orginal post and the ones which I posted up are not your Matador. I have known about your Matador for a number of years now, seeing it either first at the War & Peace Show or the Great Dorset Steam Fair. Below is a picture of it at the 2005 GDSF, one of the earliest ones I have of it. Scott Edited March 30, 2012 by Smithy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ransomesmg6 Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Hello Scott, Thanks for your reply, well it seems that the photo I posted of the army matador that i thought was mine, is in fact not!!!! Thanks for the photos of the matador- do you have any more you'd like to share, id me most interested to see them please? Kind regards Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Hello Scott,Thanks for your reply, well it seems that the photo I posted of the army matador that i thought was mine, is in fact not!!!! Thanks for the photos of the matador- do you have any more you'd like to share, id me most interested to see them please? Kind regards Henry Hi Henry, It seems that way. I'm going out this evening but will have a look through my files on Sunday. There might be one in the Matador thread: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?7083-Matador-Gallery But I will have a look on Sunday and see what I have got. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Having looked through my files I haven't anymore pictures of this matador in question. Someone else might have some though I would have thought, with it being an attendee at shows. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ransomesmg6 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Hello Scott, Thanks for looking, really appreciated! Has anyone got any photos of the matador at shows or out and about? regards Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLUF Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Hi Guys,This information was passed on to me by a goodfriend, to try and help you out with if it is yours or not... Matador Army RegistrationNumber 78 RD 97 was converted from 90 YY 00 it should have the chassis number08532321 this information should confirm if this matador is indeed 78 RD 97. The key card at Deepcutshould give the census number (which my friend doesn't have) and when it wassold which if it is this vehicle you already know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jenkins Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hi Guys,This information was passed on to me by a goodfriend, to try and help you out with if it is yours or not...Matador Army RegistrationNumber 78 RD 97 was converted from 90 YY 00 it should have the chassis number08532321 this information should confirm if this matador is indeed 78 RD 97. The key card at Deepcutshould give the census number (which my friend doesn't have) and when it wassold which if it is this vehicle you already know... Hi Fluf, interesting bit of information; I have seen 78RD97 on the show circuit. Have you any idea when the identity changed from 90YY00 to 78RD97? Thanks in anticipation, best wishes. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 HI STEVE Igave FLUFF that information on your matador I will look at my matador files and let you know the answer regards wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 HI STEVE The answer to your Question about the renumbering of matadors it appeared to have happened between 1951 and 1952 a number where converted from YY numbers to RD and RH numbers I can not find any referance as to why this happened REGARDS WALLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 HI STEVEThe answer to your Question about the renumbering of matadors it appeared to have happened between 1951 and 1952 a number where converted from YY numbers to RD and RH numbers I can not find any referance as to why this happened REGARDS WALLY My understanding which I have read in many articles & books : in 1949 the Army & RAF went over from H12345 set to 11AA22 format, ARMY vehicles that would remain in service until the end of their expect life got a reg pair from near the end of the alphabet, vehicles that were rebuilt for longer term retention got an RD etc number; So I would suggest this vehicle was allocated a new VRN on rebuild- there may well be a rebuild plate on it somewhere TED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Hi Henry, I would say that those pictures that you have attached are from a more recent sale than 1970 (although they could well be). I saw this lovely Matador about 8/9 years now at the Hollowell Steam Show when it was owned by Paul Rhodes. Below are a couple of pictures, one from 2003 (scanned copy of a normal picture) and one from 2004 (a digital shot). Hopefully they are of use to you. Scott What's the extraordinary thing on the left in the lower photo? I know it's a Mat, but what has happened to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 What's the extraordinary thing on the left in the lower photo? I know it's a Mat, but what has happened to it? It was a Showman's conversion, I have some details about it somewhere but not to hand. I'm sure someone else will be along though to explain more. Here are a couple more pictures: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog8811 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 What's the extraordinary thing on the left in the lower photo? Do you know when these were taken? I have come across a couple of 2011 photo's that show it looking much better than this (search numberplate in Google) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Reckon there might be a Gardner engine hidden in there. I try to be open-minded, but that makes me fell quite ill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog8811 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I try to be open-minded...... I know what you mean showmen don't usually get it quite so wrong, and yes I found details on a forum that confirm a Gardner conversion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I suppose we should accept that not everyone has the same empathy with MVs, and the fact that this one was 'tricked' could well have contributed to it surviving for so long. Street / rod conversions can look great if well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Do you know when these were taken? I have come across a couple of 2011 photo's that show it looking much better than this (search numberplate in Google) Hi Rog, these were taken by myself in 2005 at the Hollowell Steam Show. It was owned by Paul Rhodes who had a number of different heavy machines at the time, including the Matador next to this one. I've googled the numberplate and to me those pictures look like when it was it service on the fairgrounds or when it first entered preservation. I only say this as if you look at the chrome bumper there seems to be an old Ford Fiesta in the reflection. Just my thoughts. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog8811 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 looks like when it was in service on the fairgrounds or when it first entered preservation I have to agree, I have since found it in another photo set that is titled "fairground 1984 to 1990" so that brackets it pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I have to agree, I have since found it in another photo set that is titled "fairground 1984 to 1990" so that brackets it pretty well. It used to be with Armstrongs Fun Fair according to what I've been told and this is backed up by another photo I've found of it from when it was still in use: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jenkins Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 HI STEVEThe answer to your Question about the renumbering of matadors it appeared to have happened between 1951 and 1952 a number where converted from YY numbers to RD and RH numbers I can not find any referance as to why this happened REGARDS WALLY Hello Wally, Thanks very much for this - Ted has already provided the explanation as to why renumbering took place; a simple overhaul would have seen it retain teh earlier number. Best wishes, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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