Jump to content

Identifying uniforms by pattern and colour


Panzer nut

Recommended Posts

It has been said that you can not identify a uniform by its DPM pattern and colour and that all DPM is temperate and any variation in colour is down to production processes.

 

Firstly I agree and Disagree with this idea.

 

Now You can not identify a uniform by the pattern of the DPM but the colour will give you a 80% chance of Identifying the Pattern of Uniform.

 

Examples below:

 

 

Example 1 (Above): an easy one for you.

 

 

Example 2 (Above and below): slightly harder but i have included a close up of the DPM pattern as well

 

 

 

Comments and answers please

Jon

Img_2024.jpg

Img_2029.jpg

Img_2023.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes to the first one.

 

now why do you think late 68 and not 85 pattern?

Jon

 

Later 68 can be very diffcult to distinguish from 85...I thought 85 pattern (or whatever it should be referred to ;)) initially....

Edited by Eaglehurst
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's best to have a large collection to hand and to study the garments.......really the only way to gain knowledge.....

 

Colour is a good indication, but not pattern......many of the 60 and 68 pattern DPM garments do not have "dots" in the print........yet some later production does and in a newer material too.....

 

In the mid-1970's the MoD experimented with a new mixed-cotton fabric for the combat suit, as the earlier 100% cotton sateen fabric was considered too heavy in summer and when wet, plus shrank if soaked or washed in a machine.....

 

The new fabric was a mix of either 50/50 cotton-synthetic or 70/30 cotton-synthetic, so when printed with the cammo pattern the fabric produced slightly different colours, feel, etc......

 

But as with many things, old stocks were used up first, so pure cotton sateen continued in use by some manufacturers through to the early 1980's........

 

The "68 pattern" suit (smock, trousers, hood & cap) were all subject to this modification around 1977-78.....and with it came a new NSN for the smock and trousers (changing from 8404 to 8415)....but not the cap or hood, which continued to use the original NSN regardless of the fabric from which constructed........and the 68 pattern designation was quietly dropped around this time for the smock and trousers.......it's also worth noting that the DPM cap and hood were not officially introduced until 1972...so not really 68 pattern......mind you, the matching smock and trousers were not introduced until 1971......

 

So to date the smock and trousers at least...if marked "8405" then it is from 71 to 77-78, and "8415" thereafter until 1984.....

 

DPM aircrew suits, some sniper smocks, and some para smocks continued to use the earlier heavy sateen cloth through to the mid-1980's, the aircrew suit actually continuing to use this material right up to the present......although the DPM print is now much, much darker and more "current" in pattern......

Edited by wdbikemad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been said that you can not identify a uniform by its DPM pattern and colour and that all DPM is temperate and any variation in colour is down to production processes.

 

Firstly I agree and Disagree with this idea.

 

Now You can not identify a uniform by the pattern of the DPM but the colour will give you a 80% chance of Identifying the Pattern of Uniform.

 

Examples below:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49746[/ATTACH]

Example 1 (Above): an easy one for you.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49747[/ATTACH]

Example 2 (Above and below): slightly harder but i have included a close up of the DPM pattern as well

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49748[/ATTACH]

 

 

Comments and answers please

Jon

 

I bet you example 2 garments are "8415" coded......:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes its an late 68 pattern. nsn 8415 99 132 1822 Size 2 nato 6070/9505

 

My mate walked out of the tent and I went "I bet thats 8415" and sure enough, also the trousers had the 6 belt loops.

 

Jon

 

Very late production "68 pattern" 8415 coded DPM trousers (circa 1982-84) have a revised trouser lining, that is actually sewn-in to the seams instead of the earlier "tab" arrangement......plus, the side (hip) pockets are visible inside the lining......this was done to improve the comfort/weight/drying-out time, etc.......earlier 8415-coded strides (1977-78 to 1982) are as per the 68 pattern in terms of lining.......:-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And for anyone interested, Sabre Sales in Southsea have a fair few NOS Size 5 late-"68 pattern" DPM strides in stock....they are 6 belt-loop type, darker DPM cotton-modal fabric, and new.......and (I think) a very reasonable £15 a pair......:) (ps - always ask for Dickie or Bob......they are upstairs in the DPM room in the old flats....!)

Edited by wdbikemad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Colour is a good indication, but not pattern......many of the 60 and 68 pattern DPM garments do not have "dots" in the print........yet some later production does and in a newer material too.....

 

Oh I agree, I have learnt that one over time. Colour is a good one but as you say not the pattern, we explored in depth on the old c20 forum about colours and even button colour and design in such a manner there were complaints that we were overwhelming the forum...lol I think we were upto page 20 before it went all tits up.

 

Jon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh I agree, I have learnt that one over time. Colour is a good one but as you say not the pattern, we explored in depth on the old c20 forum about colours and even button colour and design in such a manner there were complaints that we were overwhelming the forum...lol I think we were upto page 20 before it went all tits up.

 

Jon

 

yep, got quite intense at times!!!! Good fun though!!! Miss that forum

 

Mark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And for anyone interested, Sabre Sales in Southsea have a fair few NOS Size 5 late-"68 pattern" DPM strides in stock....they are 6 belt-loop type, darker DPM cotton-modal fabric, and new.......and (I think) a very reasonable £15 a pair......:) (ps - always ask for Dickie or Bob......they are upstairs in the DPM room in the old flats....!)

 

I really need to get down there at some point! My fear is that I would be there for a week and served divorce papers when I returned!!:-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is an eye opener, mind you make sure you have had all your shots first especialy against flea bites. Carry plenty off food and water, dont put anything down especialy personal items as you will never find them again (I lost my lemmings cap in there), carry a mobile phone and make sure yo have a red rope tied to your waist and then to a secure point out side the building so that some one can pull you out if you get into difficulty. Just shouting help when a pile of clothing falls on you wont cut it.

LOL

Jon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I went (for the first time ever) on Tuesday and the NOS late 68 Ptn trousers were still there, at least 20 pairs in size 5 and size 7.

 

None in my size but as a consolation prize I found a pair of NOS early windproof trousers, in the 'pale' DPM, with the two cross over integral waist fastening belts.

 

Only £15.00

 

NO I WILL NOT CONSIDER SELLING

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went (for the first time ever) on Tuesday and the NOS late 68 Ptn trousers were still there, at least 20 pairs in size 5 and size 7.

 

None in my size but as a consolation prize I found a pair of NOS early windproof trousers, in the 'pale' DPM, with the two cross over integral waist fastening belts.

 

Only £15.00

 

NO I WILL NOT CONSIDER SELLING

 

I thought Steve (wdbikemad) had cleared them out of this sort of gear....maybe I should get down there!

 

What size were they?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few years ago I bought a cracking jacket which looks like bang on the same as the one in the first photo from Nettley Marsh Motorcycle/Auto Jumble which I paid £5.00 quid for...

..the chap had at least 100 of them all the same price...pick through til you found one that fitted.

They'd all been repaired at some point in their life but all very well done...mine has about a 12" of obviously newer material stitched into the middle of the back and a couple of very well done patches on the sleeves about 2" square....

.It's an absolutely great jacket and still worn more or less every other day.....the badge stitched inside the shoulder in the centre is very faded and says:

Size 2

NATO Size 6070/9500 (or 9509?)

then there's summat else that I can't read cos its so faded....

...Button cuffs not velcro and it's got a 'bum flap' thing, draw string through the bottom hem and through the waist.........and the top pockets are on a slight 'angle' to the jacket....

so..........................whats mine then?:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Instant thought is a '68 pattern but then you think that may be thhis is a trick question...Got a Picture?

 

Questions:

Is it double lined with an olive material?

Are the pockets closed with buttons or press studs?

Is it a stiched colar?

Obvious question is it in DPM?

 

Do you know the NSN?

Ta

Jon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Instant thought is a '68 pattern but then you think that may be thhis is a trick question...Got a Picture?

 

Questions:

Is it double lined with an olive material?

Are the pockets closed with buttons or press studs?

Is it a stiched colar?

Obvious question is it in DPM?

 

Do you know the NSN?

Ta

Jon

hehehehno not a trick question !....I'd just like to know what it is :)

to answer: yep.... its double lined and the colour is I guess more or about olive green maybe a bit lighter a shade of green ???....all pockets are closed by buttons...and the collar is a separate piece stitched on..and yeah its what I'd call proper streaky messy green /black/ muddy brown / kharki camo colour!...also its got an inside pocket on the left as yer wearing it....

It's super warm but does, as someone said above, get very heavy when wet..

and please excuse me but ...whats 'the NSN'?

Edited by RattlesnakeBob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

hehehehno not a trick question !....I'd just like to know what it is :)

to answer: yep.... its double lined and the colour is I guess more or about olive green maybe a bit lighter a shade of green ???....all pockets are closed by buttons...and the collar is a separate piece stitched on..and yeah its what I'd call proper streaky messy green /black/ muddy brown / kharki camo colour!...also its got an inside pocket on the left as yer wearing it....

It's super warm but does, as someone said above, get very heavy when wet..

and please excuse me but ...whats 'the NSN'?

 

If the label is still legible it will be the 4-2-3-4 digit number - something like 8405 99 132 1823. Does the collar have several parallel lines of stiching running through it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the label is still legible it will be the 4-2-3-4 digit number - something like 8405 99 132 1823. Does the collar have several parallel lines of stiching running through it?

 

the badge is very faded and all I can make out is what I put above sorry!

and no, the collar does not have horizontal stitche through it..

any ideas? many thanks anyways!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...