andym Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 There's been some discussion here on the "Hawker" batteries on several occasions, so here's some information I've gathered that people may find useful. If you think I'm teaching Granny to suck eggs this probably isn't for you! These batteries are usually known as the "Hawker" in the UK after their manufacturer, Hawker Enersys, and as "Armasafe" in the US after the trade name used by the Enersys parent company. They exist in two main forms, a vented type (UK6TNMF, 6140-99-219-2903) or a sealed type (12FV120, 6140-99-690-6632). The latter is the same as the US variant, 6140-01-485-1472. Other than the vent, all the batteries are identical and use an AGM (Advanced Glass Mat) design with the electrolyte held like a sponge. They won't spill or leak if cracked and stand a good chance of working with a round through them. Compared to the more common flooded lead-acid 6TN batteries, the Hawkers have approximately double the Cold Cranking Amps (1225A), a higher capacity (110Ah) and a much longer shelf life - up to five years. They require no maintenance other than keeping them charged, and unlike conventional lead-acids can be successfully recovered from very low states of charge if neglected. However, they're also a lot more expensive than conventional lead-acids! There's quite a lot of information on the Internet about care of these batteries, mainly from the US - try Googling "Armasafe" if you want to know more. However, it's worthwhile repeating that although they are "maintenance-free", these batteries do need some TLC to keep them in good condition. It is important to check their OCV (Open Circuit Voltage) every now and then. OCV is a much better indicator of state of charge for an AGM battery than a conventional lead-acid, and the Hawker is fully charged at 12.9V and half-charged at 12.2V. If the OCV falls below 12.6V then the battery should be charged asap. Even without external current drains such as the Firewire system on FV430s and other AFVs, batteries will self-discharge over time so it's important to keep an eye on the OCV of batteries in vehicles that are only used intermittently. Note also that a conventional lead-acid battery self-discharges at around 5% per month (the Hawker is around 1%, another advantage!) and in both cases the rate doubles with every 10 degree C rise in temperature. The Hawker likes to be charged from a constant voltage source of 14.25V, which is why on an FV430 the charging voltage is set at 28.50V +/- 0.5V which I assume is the same for other vehicles. Off the vehicle a conventional mains charger can be used provided that it doesn't exceed 15V when charging, otherwise you're likely to damage the battery. By far the best option is to use a modern pulse charger such as those manufactured by Pulsetech in the US. Both the DOD and MOD use their "World Charger" and I bought the smaller "Xtreme Charge" from the UK importer. This is a very clever piece of kit that not only charges batteries intelligently according to their state but can also recover dead ones due to its pulsing action. I've got four "new" Hawker batteries in my FV432 which were at 12.5V when I bought them and the Xtreme Charge quickly brought them up to 100% with no problems. More interestingly, I had a rather sad looking Hawker that came with the vehicle and had an OCV of just over 8V. I put it on the charger and left it for four days, by which time it was back up to 100% - not bad for a "dead" battery, demonstrating the useful combination of a modern battery and appropriate charger. A conventional lead-acid battery in that state would almost certainly be scrap. I hope that information is useful to others, I'd better finish by saying that I've no connection with Hawker or PulseTech other than being a very satisfied customer! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g7jwr Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) Hi Andy very informative post Martin Edited January 23, 2011 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Thanks Andy for such usefull information. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I have now purchased a PulseTech charger, I went for the X2 due to the number of 24v vehicles I have. The first pair of "bad" Hawkers are on charge now, will advise the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 Let me know how you get on! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 will advise the outcome. Let me know how you get on! Andy ????? I thought he said he would!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 (edited) I had a few sets of 'bad' Hawkers when I first got my 432 and 439. They were all completely dead when tested. I gave them to the fitters at work who advised that they would be scrap and were not worth trying to recharge, I persuaded them to give it a go anyway. Few days later went to collect them and they were amazed that they were holding a charge and appeared on the meters to be very healthy. I put them back on the vehicles and, touch wood, haven't had any problems since. Not bad for batteries that according to the date of manufacture stamped on them are seven years old and were completely flat for god knows how long... Edited December 2, 2010 by Sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 great thread, thanks for the info. i've always thought of batteries as a dark art, it seems like everyone has a different way of testing and charging them, i might get rid of my £8 ebay chinese effort and get one of those fancy chargers. cheers eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 great thread, thanks for the info. i've always thought of batteries as a dark art, it seems like everyone has a different way of testing and charging them, i might get rid of my £8 ebay chinese effort and get one of those fancy chargers. cheers eddy Call in and have a look at the one I bought when your passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 i'll do that mate. cheers eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g7jwr Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 anyone have the contact info for the UK importer of the xtreme charger martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 anyone have the contact info for the UK importer of the xtreme charger martin It's USI: http:///www.usiltd.co.uk/products/battery_chargers/xtreme_charger Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g7jwr Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It's USI: http:///www.usiltd.co.uk/products/battery_chargers/xtreme_charger Andy cheers andy that fast reply Martin www.clansman-radios.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 We aim to please! :-) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasSomT. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 If they make them for 'the military' why don't they, or anyone else, make a simple 24V pulse charger, or is there a basic reason why these batteries must be charged individually? Chas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 This is a switchable 12/24V charger, but I'm not sure it is a PULSE type. :??? http://www.accumate.co.uk/it010004.htm I'm using this and several 12V Optimate ones for the gel type OPTIMA batteries (which I think are basically same technology as the Hawker batteries?). But recently I've had problems with a few of these batteries exhibiting signs of sulphating up, after standing around too long and these chargers are not doing what I thought they would :-( Can anyone advise if these chargers are pulse type, and if not what I should be looking for (other than new batteries :sweat:)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 The Accumate looks like a simple regulated charger rather than a pulse type. There's no mention of it doing anything to prevent or break up sulphation. The Pulsetech ones aren't cheap, and I'm sure there are other perfectly capable similar chargers around. I just know that the Pulsetech ones work! To answer Chas' question, I suppose there's two things. Firstly each battery may have different charging requirements based on age and amount of sulphation so in an ideal world it's best to charge them as individual units. Secondly the "military" chargers are only really commercial units with an NSN stuck on and the number of commercial 12V applications probably greatly exceeds 24V ones. At least one of the bigger Pulsetech units is switchable 12/24V, IIRC. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) OK I've just been talking with the distributor, and the chargers are not a pulse type. A better option from this manufacturer for heavy gel batteries would be http://www.optimate.co.uk/optimate%206.htm Apparently some battery manufacturers are not happy about long-term use of pulse chargers for maintenance, as they are shown to reduce battery life?? Note two websites - www.accumate.co.uk and www.optimate.co.uk These chargers were recommended by the OPTIMA distributor as they give the slightly higher voltage settings required for gel type. What a minefield...... P.S. Just missed your post, Andy. I think the desulphation cycle is only on the Optimate models, not Accumate as I posted. Optimate are only 12v at the moment, but more models are in the pipeline. So is the verdict still to go for a pulse type charger? Edited March 9, 2011 by N.O.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yes, that Optimate 6 looks very similar to the Pulsetech Xtreme but with a higher output (5A against 2.5A) which could be useful. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 And do please learn from my mistake - if I had kept these batteries on maintenance charge I would probably have a full house of good gel batteries (only 7 chargers and far too many batteries - kept forgetting to alternate the ones on charge!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yes, that Optimate 6 looks very similar to the Pulsetech Xtreme but with a higher output (5A against 2.5A) which could be useful. Andy Yep, their technical guy said the 6 is good at monitoring how the battery absorbs the charge, and so they will automatically regulate the charge rate if charging a very small battery thus no damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 And do please learn from my mistake - if I had kept these batteries on maintenance charge I would probably have a full house of good gel batteries (only 7 chargers and far too many batteries - kept forgetting to alternate the ones on charge!!). With a pulse charger you may be surprised at how many you can resuscitate. I've brought a Hawker back from 10V OCV to 100% (13V) and have another that's been on charge for a week now with the OCV rising from 12.1V to 12.5V. Fingers crossed ... Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) With a pulse charger you may be surprised at how many you can resuscitate. Andy I think I need what you're using Andy :blush: - what make/model are you using please? edit: Hang on, is this the Xtreme xharge unit you're talking about? You say it is similar to the Optimate 6: their guy says other chargers of this type are sometimes described as Pulse type although that is not strictly correct - the short end-of-recovery cycle behaves like a pulse charge but the main recovery cycle is not. I'm not sure I can get ny head around this at the moment, but if you believe the two chargers are similar I'm tempted to try a couple of Optima 6, or maybe one and one Xtreme? Maybe I'm not giving them enough time to recover - tried one for about 10 days and no sign of increased capacity (tested on a start cycle - I must confess I haven't been monitoring voltage). Edited March 9, 2011 by N.O.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 I think I need what you're using Andy :blush: - what make/model are you using please? edit: Hang on, is this the Xtreme xharge unit you're talking about? You say it is similar to the Optimate 6: their guy says other chargers of this type are sometimes described as Pulse type although that is not strictly correct - the short end-of-recovery cycle behaves like a pulse charge but the main recovery cycle is not. I'm not sure I can get ny head around this at the moment, but if you believe the two chargers are similar I'm tempted to try a couple of Optima 6, or maybe one and one Xtreme? Maybe I'm not giving them enough time to recover - tried one for about 10 days and no sign of increased capacity (tested on a start cycle - I must confess I haven't been monitoring voltage). Yes, it is indeed the Pulsetech Xtreme. It's a microprocessor controlled charger and pulses all through the charging cycle. When the battery is at 100% it stops charging and continues pulsing - there are LEDs on the front that show exactly what it's doing, together with the monitored state of the battery. The only downside is that the charging current is pretty low (2.5A) so recovery of a dead battery can take a long time. For maintenance and the odd recovery it's fine. If you have a lot of batteries to recover, something with a higher output would be better. I'd be tempted to try an Optima 6 and see how it behaves? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Thanks for the advice on comparison. I'll try one and also get a price for the X2, as like John says it will be convenient for 24v vehicles with batteries in situ. Your point about monitoring voltage is very valid - and is I guess really the only way to understand if a battery recovery operation is heading the right way!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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