question I know this may upset some folk....

[Porta]

....but it is just my opinion based on anecdotal, and some real world experience....

 

how is it that once a british bit of machinery becomes obsolete, it was the best thing since sliced bread????

 

This is despite years of complaints to the contrary whilst it was ever in service, whether it be an mg midget or a chieften...in fact, some things have been obsolete for years and are still in service...the landy springs to mind

 

*ducks and waits for flak*

 

just some examples:

grandfather went over with yanks on d'day, yes and got pinned down, as part of the effort to gain aerodrome...when they finally got of the beaches with the gear, and captured airfield, they were given a churchill with turret missing as tow vehicle (g'dad was a blacksmith in RAF and had trucks with forges on) it kept breaking down so was given an abandoned renault tank from WWI!!!! ever since then he bought renaults after having rileys, austins etc

loads of friends have landys...and i spend my time doing their sparkying...and theyre always moaning about gearboxes, transaxles, starters, etc.etc....two also have willys and dont use anything else when the sun shines

father (electrician) had a WWII quad (useful but underpowered and too hot as closed) in aden and then a saracen (unreiliable piece of junk he said...and they werenew then)...gave them both back when the FFL 'lent' him a willys of lybian wwII era, for his personal use(he fixed one of their vehicles)...(which he later swapped for a citroen light 15)....

personally I've continually fixed....MG midgets, MGB, moggie 1000s, (oil leak city, crap electrics, brakes as well as shoddy electrics), triumph stag, sprint and hearald (the herald was easily the best of the bunch but others electrics and cooling systems cr*p) capris, escorts, cortinas, (rust buckets and electrics), jag mk II and giant (starter circuits and a heating system designed by a masochist)

 

so when I get the micky taken for liking classic italian gear and relying of fiats most of my working life...dont tell me faults are not character...folk in glass houses...etcetcetc....:cool2:...hehehe

[oily]

...as far as reliability is concerned,... any vehicle can be perfectly reliable, (yes, -even a Saracen!).... it's all down to correct amount of QUALITY maintenance, for that specific type of vehicle. On any of my vehicles, (and one or two are pretty bizarre, by 'normal' standards...:cool2:) I never get recurring faults, I fix them right, 1st time round, ... when I eventually get round to it:nut:

[berna2vm]

I have not seen the 'Top Gear' programme but the results are completely at odds with what I see everyday in my garage!!! Modern Land Rover products cannot hold a candle to Toyota's vehicles. Unfortunately they are no more AEC,s Scammells or Gardner diesel engines and there was a time when the early Land Rovers were the best in the world but sadly that is just not the case anymore. I am pleased that people buy LR products because it keeps British people in jobs.. And me busy repairing them :-).

[julezee001]

I have not seen the 'Top Gear' programme but the results are completely at odds with what I see everyday in my garage!!! Modern Land Rover products cannot hold a candle to Toyota's vehicles. Unfortunately they are no more AEC,s Scammells or Gardner diesel engines and there was a time when the early Land Rovers were the best in the world but sadly that is just not the case anymore. I am pleased that people buy LR products because it keeps British people in jobs.. And me busy repairing them :-).

 

Totally agree with these comments. I'd love to recommend modern Landrovers, but they aren't very reliable these days. Bottom of several motoring surveys, which is rather sad. I'm ever hopeful that Tata will see the bigger picture and try to recapture so much of the world market that Landrover has lost over the last 20 years. Build them easy to maintain, capable and reliable.

 

The most reliable vehicle I work on is an Australian version of the Isuzu Trooper, caller a Holden Jackaroo. It's been owned from new by a friend since 1998, and has now covered about 280,000km. It has the 3.1 TD Isuzu engine but it hasn't got a timing belt, instead timing gears for reliability. The brake discs are still the originals, and I would judge they'll possibly do another 200,000km before needing replacing! Bizarre but true. The bodywork and chassis haven't any significant rust yet. Even the electric aerial is the original, which despite being bent early in it's life, still makes a reasonable effort every time to fully extend itself. Why can't Landrover produce a world beating vehicle like this any more?

 

Jules

[Dave]

To say land rovers can`t hold their own against a toyota may be missing another point;

modern Land Rovers are crap compared to older land rovers (the series 1,2,3 and the original Range rover.)

An older vehicle could be modified by the owner for what ever he or she wanted now you can`t touch them without a laptop.

back on track though You don`t here many complaints about the Thornycroft Antar or the Scammell Commander

Oshkosh sounds like someone just sneezed.

How does my Diamond T fit in? it`s a british design but american built.

[berna2vm]

Diamond T rocks... I think everyone would agree on this one :-).That was the point I was making about Land Rovers..

[stal108]

OW

ww11 stuff well was a ruby7 and a jeep something there? i hate jeeps myself but were they a copy of some old british car?? but 4wd or chassis something... i was told this could be wrong.

 

Land rover took up where jeeps left off.

Ok till 1982 they all did this leaf thing but then land rover went coil...

JEEP owners will say well a jeep can go where a landrover can. Yes with axle difflocks

Landrover keeps the axles on the ground far better than anyother 4x4 std load of axle movement. The other point is tyres if all things ar equal i would put my money on a landrover.

 

CHASSIS ROT! Yes thats why they build new ones and keep 1000s in work with all the aftermarket mods chassis diffs cages ete etc i just bought discs and pads f/r £68

 

Have you ever heard the term BENCHMARK! Thats a landrover

 

Yes engines were crap till the 200tdi 300 great motor td5 reasonable,,, transit engine good.

v8 well sounds good at least.

 

Love them hate them

 

If we look world wide the toyota landcruiser is very used in australia and in deserts wonder why???

[stal108]

One more point

 

If there were another world war..... for example iran as a start or if there were a takeover in pakistan... and it went off world wide.

 

Where would the british get there kit??

I am sure M/A/N would not put us first what do you think......what about everything else??

[steveo578]

stal108

If there were another world war..... for example iran as a start or if there were a takeover in pakistan... and it went off world wide.

Pakistan came very close to a military take over in the past month when Mr 10% was looking at his property holdings in UK and France rather than doing his job in his own country -but happily most of the senior members of the Pakistani Army are not advocates of the Talibs.

 

Where would the british get there kit??

I am sure M/A/N would not put us first what do you think......

It was the same during the last world war- Germany had problems with integrating Opel (GM) and Ford into it war plans because of their international connections. We continued to pay royalties to both German and italian companies for carburettor designs and several patents to Hungary. Blue circle cement a British company failed to prevent its neutral users diverting product to Nazi Germany, to the extent that there was so much bagged cement on the Kiel quayside that they were using them as ad hoc sand bag protection -the T/T division that occupied the area was less than amused to find the stuff was out of Teesside.

 

When it comes down to it most of "our kit" comes from EU (apart from my cheap entrenching tool which is from Tiawan) and hopefully we will be on the same side, -the Germans will be happy to supply UK forces and claim they are pulling their weight by doing so -whilst allowing/requiring their own guys to do humanitiarian duties:-D

 

Steve

[schliesser92]

It is not just vehicles and weapons!

 

whilst I was serving (1967-80) as a radio-relay technician, the mainstay of the Bruin divisional and corps RR links was the SR C70 aka the Siemens FM12/800. Our teleprinters were Siemens T100R. The replacement for the RR kit was Triffid, in reality a licence-built AEG-Telefunken set.

 

In steam radio circles the C15 (used by 3 Div and 244 Signal Squadron), was a Collins set (USA).

 

The radar in Tornado GR aircraft is from Texas Instruments, the fire-control radar on Type 21 frigates was the Italian Selenia RTN-10. And it goes on, and on...

 

For those not in the know, the MoD appoints a UK contractor for PDS work, so that the equipment remians supported, even if we eventually have a punch-up with the supplying nation.

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

In answer to the original question: nostalgia may play its part. Do human beings have an innate distrust of change? Remember that until agriculture and metalworking the same patterns of tool (stone, wood, bone etc.) were in use for millennia.

 

This isn't a modern phenomenon:

 

"Do not say, 'Why were the old days better than these?'

For it is not wise to ask such questions" - Ecclesiastes 6:10, NIV

 

Who knows, maybe the author (Solomon?) heard some Israelite charioteers complaining...

[steveo578]

Yes but human beings have an innate need to strive for change, as another good book says

 

"and to all you apes out there, remember the important thing is to keep banging the rocks together"

 

Hitchhickers guide to the Gallaxy by Douglas Adams:-D

 

steve

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

Yes, we do. But it doesn't mean we can't enjoy a good moan about it!

[Big ray]

Oh Stable boy, you just missed the point. Yes here comes another Dodge, and another and another, on and on doing any job their asked with no fuss no worry. (Pity the modern US vehicles aren't the same!)

 

Just ask any veteran from the Far East, WW2, he will confirm the reliability of the Dodge weapons carrier, it performed stirling service on the minimum of maintenance. Fabulous little truck.:kissoncheek:

[Tony B]

I got told a story about the Far East by a veteran. He was in charge of transport section with MW's. On one trip two of his guys ran into a water bufallo. Meat being short, waste not want not, they chucked it in the back of the truck. On returning to the base a lot of the troops were Hindu. As the vehicle had carried a dead 'cow', none of them would drive it.

He roprted the situation up the line and was told return truck to depot and replace. When he got there he found a couple of Dodges. So a bit of horse trading later he brought them back.

 

He reckoned it was the worst decision of his life. The things were unstopable! Any dirty job going, his section got it.