nz2 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Is there any sign on the plans of a point allowing ramps to be positioned about the mud guards? The mud guards themselves appear to be too light to support the placing of timber.A couple of planks as ramps would assist in loading if the wheels were still in place. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Here is a French trailer loaded with a German plane with its wheels removed for stable transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Not as of yet seen anything like that, The French I believe were ahead of the UK in trailer design before the war as they were much more advanced in building aircraft so the requirement was there. However by the eve of war French trailer design was rooted in the past, it was a fully boarded full width trailer usually covered by means of hoops and canvas. We had the advantage of starting fresh with a new concept based on the 1913 current aircraft designs. The French loaded the aircraft with its wheels on top of the trailer flat, an aircraft already an unstable structure was supported on inflated rubber as high up as possible from the road so the tendency was to build a low trailer often with smaller wheels not as good at travelling over rough ground. We built a narrow trailer where the aircraft wheels straddled the structure and the aircraft axle could be rigidly fixed to the trailer chassis, a lower more stable design.The British design was not covered and had large diameter twin wheels for better cross country ability. I believe during loading the aircraft axle was dragged and balanced along the draw-bar before being supported by the chassis rails. The centre portion of the trailer was normally not boarded and had brackets to allow stowage space for 2 lewis gun transit chests beneath the level of the trailer flat. you can see this in the pictures I have posted. Most British aircraft carried Lewis guns. These are my own thoughts which may be correct, however I have studied the photographs carefully from a usage and build point of view to develop my own interpretation which is now on the road. [ATTACH=CONFIG]89433[/ATTACH] French [ATTACH=CONFIG]89445[/ATTACH] French French [ATTACH=CONFIG]89442[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]89437[/ATTACH] British [ATTACH=CONFIG]89443[/ATTACH] British the german aircraft in the last 2 pics appears the be a Pfalz D111..: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfalz_D.III there is one still flying...in New Zealand as far as i know theres only 2 of these in existance...making it one of the rarest aircraft in the world today. They served during the late spring air offensives of 1917...although not considered to be as manuverable as the Albatros scouts..they had the advantage of being able to dive at high speeds...making them good for ground attack and balloon busting jobs. they helped to re-establish german air superiority during the events that came to be known as `bloody april`..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAF Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If your heart is set on a Pfalz it might be tricky, although they are quite beautiful. Of the two in NZ, one is a converted Tiger Moth, and the other a more accurate (and shorter) design by a chap called Ray Hilborne. They were both built in the mid sixties for 'The Blue Max' with George Peppard, James Mason et al. The most recent replica was a fiberglass job built for the successor company of Pfalz werke, which IIRC is currently in a museum in Speyer. The 'replica' section of theaerodrome forum should help you here - they've got members building Albatros projects, although no Pfalzes at the moment. Apparently once you're tooled up to produce these monocoque fuselages they're fairly easy to make in volume, but as a one-off it may be harder to produce (of course, if you're going to work in modern materials it might be easier). Depending on how you want to display this, it might be worth considering a Fokker DVII or Dr1. They're more angular, if you want to have wings they're wireless so easy to rig, and plans (if you want them) will be much easier to find. I don't know if it's on this or the other thread, but the picture of the Fokker DVII with a skull on the side displayed on the back of a trailer strikes me as a wonderful potential display - plus you wouldn't need to build an undercarriage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) I think this may be the image you are referring to? Looks great, but could only be used on motorways as it is a little wide! Also looks very simple to make, as you say angular in construction and not too long at 22ft. Where could I find a set of plans for the fuselage? Edited April 14, 2014 by Charawacky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 well...if you want to see an oustanding example of a fokker DV11 with original 160HP mercedes......then here: and here is a fokker DR1 with original 110HP le-rhone rotary: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 and here is a fokker DR1 with original 110HP le-rhone rotary: I say chaps, surely you mean the Oberusel Le-Rhone copy, what what? trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAF Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think this may be the image you are referring to? Looks great, but could only be used on motorways as it is a little wide! Also looks very simple to make, as you say angular in construction and not too long at 22ft. Where could I find a set of plans for the fuselage? [ATTACH=CONFIG]89957[/ATTACH] That's the one - I remember the picture from a memoir of one of the pilots in that squadron (I must check to try and find it). If 22ft is OK, the top wing is only 3ft longer, and the wings should be very easy to rig - they're cantilever, so there is no rigging. The same was true of the Triplane Dr1, which is shorter, and has a shorter span (but has more wings in the first place :-)). There are plenty of plans available - builders of full scale flyers use sets frfom Jim Kiger's replicraft - http://www.replicraft.us.fm/plansets.htm and from Ron Sands for Dr1s. The same plans are often used for flyers and for large scale RC models, and that might be another option - plans sets for 1/4 scale models are easily available on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fokker-DVII-1-4-Scale-Plan-I-C-Power-Model-Aircraft-Plan-PLAN241-/120956383347#ht_1145wt_1011. A good source is http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/replica-aircraft/ as there are members there who are currently building all manner of replicas, but quite a few DVII and Dr1s. Of course if you do build something like this, you'll have children (of all ages) climbing on it!:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I say chaps, surely you mean the Oberusel Le-Rhone copy, what what? trevor there were a few differences between the oburusal and the Le-Rhone the Oberusal had a cast crankcase...the Le-rhone`s was forged then fully machined throughout... the Le-Rhone was generally better finished...Oberusal rotarys were made under licence by the thulin firm in Sweden...these were better than the Frankfurt Oberusals and were highly prized by pilots One of the finest rotarys was the siemens halske...but they couldn`t get it to run rite..(that was the one with the contra-rotating crank)...gave the siemens shukert S111 a fenomenal climb rate...and higher ceiling than any allied type then in service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Similar plane under transport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAF Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 there were a few differences between the oburusal and the Le-Rhone the Oberusal had a cast crankcase...the Le-rhone`s was forged then fully machined throughout... the Le-Rhone was generally better finished...Oberusal rotarys were made under licence by the thulin firm in Sweden...these were better than the Frankfurt Oberusals and were highly prized by pilots One of the finest rotarys was the siemens halske...but they couldn`t get it to run rite..(that was the one with the contra-rotating crank)...gave the siemens shukert S111 a fenomenal climb rate...and higher ceiling than any allied type then in service There seems to have been quite an interesting effect with the 'outsourcing' of engines - the Thulin engines are an example of better workmanship, but there were lots of problems in other companies when engine volumes ramped up and outside manufacturers were involved. Some British-made Clergets apparently didn't perform nearly as well as French-made ones, whilst others were fine. Some French licence-built Hispanos were apparently terrible and downright dangerous, but engines from the original company were fine. It must all have seemed a bit of a lottery to the pilots, and since engines wore out much faster than aircraft the supply implications must have been interesting! One of the German Aces had a standing reward of wine for anyone who'd bring him an intact French engine for his Dr1, but this was as much to do with the phasing in of the Mercedes-engined DVII and resulting lack of any spare rotary engines - German, Swedish or French! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 There seems to have been quite an interesting effect with the 'outsourcing' of engines - the Thulin engines are an example of better workmanship, but there were lots of problems in other companies when engine volumes ramped up and outside manufacturers were involved. Some British-made Clergets apparently didn't perform nearly as well as French-made ones, whilst others were fine. Some French licence-built Hispanos were apparently terrible and downright dangerous, but engines from the original company were fine. It must all have seemed a bit of a lottery to the pilots, and since engines wore out much faster than aircraft the supply implications must have been interesting! One of the German Aces had a standing reward of wine for anyone who'd bring him an intact French engine for his Dr1, but this was as much to do with the phasing in of the Mercedes-engined DVII and resulting lack of any spare rotary engines - German, Swedish or French! the Gwynne manufactured Clerget`s were outstanding. the problem with the Clerget was that it used a brass `obdurator` ring...this was fitted around the piston skirt.... when this overheated...(which it often did)..it would crack. this then allowed the hot gasses to travel down the piston skirt turning the cylinder a blue with the heat. cylinders that had this blue had been heated to something like 350 *C as for the french Hisso`s...i think it was a case of: "get as many units in airframes...and to the front as quick as we can"....lets face it...most of the aircraft wouldn`t last long anyway so... the british version you refer to was the Wolsley Viper it didn`t share any common components with the Hispano suiza the Viper was for its time the best power to weight ratio of any power unit on the western front.... the most famous aircraft to use it was the Royal Aircraft Factory SE5...and SE5a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) There seems to have been quite an interesting effect with the 'outsourcing' of engines - the Thulin engines are an example of better workmanship, but there were lots of problems in other companies when engine volumes ramped up and outside manufacturers were involved. Some British-made Clergets apparently didn't perform nearly as well as French-made ones, whilst others were fine. Some French licence-built Hispanos were apparently terrible and downright dangerous, but engines from the original company were fine. It must all have seemed a bit of a lottery to the pilots, and since engines wore out much faster than aircraft the supply implications must have been interesting! One of the German Aces had a standing reward of wine for anyone who'd bring him an intact French engine for his Dr1, but this was as much to do with the phasing in of the Mercedes-engined DVII and resulting lack of any spare rotary engines - German, Swedish or French! there was a surplus of rotarys in Germany their time had come to an end really and there they were...just sat there with no use for them....this is why the Fokker DV111 was developed....a single cantelever wing....(less drag)...and a thin section fuselage...(again, less drag)...this earned it the nickname : `the flying razor` Edited April 20, 2014 by flandersflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAF Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 But then Fokker had a financial incentive to use the rotaries as he'd bought the company back in 1916 Actually a non-flying 'flying razor might be an easier build than a DVII. Smaller, probably easier to construct, easier to rig the wing if you want to show it intact. There have been a number of recent flying replicas of the 'razor' and in the same way as the others there will be plenty of 1/4 scale RC plans around to give you an idea of how easy it will be to build. On the other hand the DVII has the mentioned-in the-armistice kudos, and the particular one in the picture does have a story with it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_W%C3%BCsthoff. On a totally different tack, there may be full-size replicas out there, but just not of a DVII or DVIII. A couple of recent films have seen prop replicas built for ground scenes - 'Flyboys' and 'The Red Baron'. The props from the first one ended up in the Manston history museum. The Red Baron was a German production, and it did not break any box office records. I got the DVD and one of the features was on the number of 1:1 scale albatrosses and Fokker Dr1s they made. It might be worth an email to the film company: http://www.german-films.de/filmarchive/browse-archive/view/company/company/niama-filmstuttgart/ to check whether they have something sitting in a warehouse that would save you the hassle of building your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 The DV11 is appealing, especially as a famous one is depicted already on a trailer. What does the DV11 fuselage look like with wings removed? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 But then Fokker had a financial incentive to use the rotaries as he'd bought the company back in 1916 Actually a non-flying 'flying razor might be an easier build than a DVII. Smaller, probably easier to construct, easier to rig the wing if you want to show it intact. There have been a number of recent flying replicas of the 'razor' and in the same way as the others there will be plenty of 1/4 scale RC plans around to give you an idea of how easy it will be to build. On the other hand the DVII has the mentioned-in the-armistice kudos, and the particular one in the picture does have a story with it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_W%C3%BCsthoff. On a totally different tack, there may be full-size replicas out there, but just not of a DVII or DVIII. A couple of recent films have seen prop replicas built for ground scenes - 'Flyboys' and 'The Red Baron'. The props from the first one ended up in the Manston history museum. The Red Baron was a German production, and it did not break any box office records. I got the DVD and one of the features was on the number of 1:1 scale albatrosses and Fokker Dr1s they made. It might be worth an email to the film company: http://www.german-films.de/filmarchive/browse-archive/view/company/company/niama-filmstuttgart/ to check whether they have something sitting in a warehouse that would save you the hassle of building your own. theres one in the US with a 160 gnome it was built for Kermit Weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAF Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Hi - sorry it’sbeen a few days. There some more info on Wusthoff here - http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/people/60215-kurt-wusthoff.html, including a quote from the memoir I remembered seeing your picture in. It seemsexactly who shot him down was the source of some dispute! As for picturesof DVIIs without their wings, there’s some good build pictures on that forum. The‘Aerofile’ site has plenty of detail - http://www.aerofile.info/wordpress/ and a lot of detail pictures ofpreserved/replica DVIIs - http://www.aerofile.info/wordpress/index.php/nggallery/page/1?page_id=703 There’s alsoa whole thread of them on the Warbird Information exchange: http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=379317#p379224 The PioneerFlight Museum in Texas built a flyer a few years back and I think it wasintended to be the Wusthoff plane. They have build/project photos on their siteas well - http://pioneerflightmuseum.org/index.shtml Hope this helps [QUOTE=Charawacky;407085]The DV11 is appealing, especially as a famous one is depicted already on a trailer. What does the DV11 fuselage look like with wings removed? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Brighton run today: Something went wrong... Edited May 4, 2014 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 She's looking very smart complete with the recovery trailer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 STOW MARIES AERODROME Fly in? this weekend. As the pup has its wings removed for work we will be able to load the recovery trailer with the fuselage I hope the weather is warmer than shown. Image for demonstration purposes only: The fuselage of a Pfalz Scout being towed by R. F. C. Leyland lorry and recovery trailer near Villers-Carbonnel, 1st January 1918. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 Stow Maries , Great War Society, Sopwith Pup and Motor Transport. Photo Credit: Steve Le Grys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_bish Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Looks great with a load on, hows your replica aircraft body coming along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFMT Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I can't believe you let that lot loose on it! How was the loading? Presumably you had a few more people to help with that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) The pup fuselage was one made for the BBC series wings in which the tender also payed a part, so they were reunited for the first time since the late 1970's. The images of the pup on the trailer have shown such an exhibit permanently on the trailer is now imperative, so I must now put the wheels in motion to start a fuselage construction. As regards loading, all went as expected and 5/6 mostly unfit persons managed to load the craft, just. Had it had a metal engine things would have been more difficult, however on the other hand we had to contend with a substantial cross wind. The Great War Society really do play their part, we were struggling some what the second time we loaded the plane and the 8 RFC officers (first image - posing just out of shot) refused point blank to help - yes really. We did however get our own back later in the day by staging a runway drive-by distraction to interrupt the officers comparatively dull talk to the assembled public. - in effect a land based bussing of the control tower. Edited May 12, 2014 by Charawacky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john clayton Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 It was good to meet you all this weekend . Very impressed with your kit.From Stow Maries blacksmith and fiat 18blr owner. Can you tell me if the Crossley's wheels were made by Rudge Whitworth of Coventry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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