gritineye Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I took my Explorer out the other day in freezing temperatures, I gave no thought to the fact that I have eliminated the methanol brake system antifreezer during the engine swap. Does anybody else ever put any methanol in theirs and how necessary is it, given that the power steering is air operated as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I took my Explorer out the other day in freezing temperatures, I gave no thought to the fact that I have eliminated the methanol brake system antifreezer during the engine swap. Does anybody else ever put any methanol in theirs and how necessary is it, given that the power steering is air operated as well? I don't know about your truck, but if you haven't got an air dryer then you will need brake anti freeze. As the air condenses it will create moisture. If this freezes then you will be at risk of brake or steering failure. I used to drive trucks with an Eaton Twin Splitter. The gear shift for the range change works by air, and if the air dryer was knackered the moisture in the air line would freeze in cold temps and then the selector would no longer work and you would be left without gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Bernard, With the relatively simple air brake system on the Explorer, without numerous valves and relays, as Loggy describes, on modern lorries, you might well get away with it, what you have to be aware of, is that you will not have an auto drain valve ( unless you have fitted one) on the vehicle, so it is quite important to drain the tanks of moisture, that way, with the small amount of use that you would do in the winter, it should be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Can anyone tell me if airbrakes rust if you don't dry the air please? You dry the air ( or add methanol in to it), to remove the moisture that will then freeze, holding valves from operating, releasing, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Thanks Loggy and Richard, just as I thought then, I wondered if anyone had actually experienced problems, won't be doing that again then!..:shake: With all the mods to fit the new engine I thought I would leave fitting the air drier from the donor truck till later and of course never got round to fitting it, after all it never had one to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 As for experience problems with air systems freezing, yep, me and a least a couple of dozen others today. The rule is or was, at the end of the day in freezing weather drain the air tank. As for when the last time the systems on our busses were done, The Devil knows, and Heaven suspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 so it is quite important to drain the tanks of moisture, that way, with the small amount of use that you would do in the winter, it should be alright. I drain often so would most likely not much moisture in there now, but the first few times I went off road, on very steep drops rusty water would gush out of the steering breather, it was only when I took off the long pipes that drop down run along the chassis and up again that I got it all out, thinking about it I don't know why that had never frozen and split before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I drain often so would most likely not much moisture in there now, but the first few times I went off road, on very steep drops rusty water would gush out of the steering breather, it was only when I took off the long pipes that drop down run along the chassis and up again that I got it all out, thinking about it I don't know why that had never frozen and split before. Bernard, You also have to think about internal rusting, I have seen quite a few air tanks rusted through, they are not all that thick. So draining regularly is a good practise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Been there Richard, when I first got Forceful the main tank was rusted through and sprung a leak on my first run out. It was repaired, hence I drain often, it only had a normal screw in drain plug, I fitted a spring type with a pull cord, a lot better! I wonder how often it would have been drained with that plug, and wether this contributed to the pipes being full of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Been there Richard, when I first got Forceful the main tank was rusted through and sprung a leak on my first run out. It was repaired, hence I drain often, it only had a normal screw in drain plug, I fitted a spring type with a pull cord, a lot better! I wonder how often it would have been drained with that plug, and wether this contributed to the pipes being full of water. Ah....good thinking with the pull cord type drains, that is why drivers would not drain the tanks down becaue it usually meant rolling on the ground and getting dirty when normal taps or plugs were fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Why not fit automatic drain valves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 If I fitted them I'd have to start going to the gym, how lazy can you get? :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 If I fitted them I'd have to start going to the gym, how lazy can you get? :-D :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I always spray a bit of wd 40 into the air lines as well...helps keep everything moving..and loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Hi All. I'm currently working on a 35t scammell crusader which has problems with the air system.( not maintaining air pressure in the tanks ). I've since found out that Methanol had been used on this vehicle. After doing a system air test on the truck it was found that ALL of the valve seals were leaking. I can only put this down too the Methanol being used in the vehicle. because before this was used the vehicle was fine with no problems with the air system. I will be fitting auto drain valves too the truck when all the valves and a couple of tanks are changed. this truck has no air dryer fitted' so i will be fitting one to the system. Clive ................................ protruckservices.com Edited January 7, 2010 by protruck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 so methylated spirit would not affect rubber seals? or is it the QTY used that is the problem. Just seems very strange that since this has been used in this air system the vehicle has now developed the valve problems over the last couple of months. Clive ............................... protruckservices.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I always spray a bit of wd 40 into the air lines as well...helps keep everything moving..and loose. WD40 eats rubber seals, try GT85 or other water repelling spray that is safe on rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Hi Delta. Some one else used the methanol in the truck, not me. i'm just the person sorting out the problem. It would be the standard rubber components used in air brake valves. ( seals, O-rings etc ). so i'm not sure of their properties or if methanol will affect them. But as i said in one of my earlyer posts this problem has only started since this person has used this in the air system. Clive. .................................. protruckservices.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 The methanol was given to the guy by a Reme mech. so who knows what was in it. any way. I just need to replace all the valves and a couple of other parts and the jobs a good'n. Cheers. Clive .................................... protruckservices.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 The methanol was given to the guy by a Reme mech. so who knows what was in it. any way. I just need to replace all the valves and a couple of other parts and the jobs a good'n. Clive, If I remember correct, this should be AL-14 Methanol, Technical, Specification BS 506: Part 1, 1987. Described as Methanol, methyl alcohol, for industrial use. When the container is filled, it is drawn in through a very small bore tube, so I would not have thought it to be in sufficeint quantity to harm anything as it is in vapourised form to prevent freezing of any moisture in the system. Sounds like the wrong fluid was received, all army vehicles have had this fitment for many years and I never came across, or heard of problems with valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Have you Googled Methanol Poisoning, it's not a very pleasant I can tell you!! You are right Richard, it's AL14 for the brake anti freeze. The other alcohol is AL11 which is Isopropanol for the windscreen wash (VERY good stuff by the way, mix 25% Iso to 75% water and it will not freeze and you don't get any gunk forming in the tank) I wouldn't have thought the Methanol would have caused any problems unless your air brake rubber components and the system in general isn't designed for it. My MJ is fitted with a Methanol brake anti freeze container. When the engine is running the vacume caused by a device in the compressor sucks air through a small pipe. Air enters the bottom of the bottle and air bubbles flow through the Methanol and the resulting vapour is sucked into the compressor and then it flows round the system. I presume the rubber used in the MJ is designed for the Methanol system and shouldn't perish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I know the methanol was not vapourised when it entered the air system. it was put in the emergency Red line and then air from a workshop compresor filled the system. may be this is why the valves are f.....d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Thanks for all your input chaps, I've been looking into fitting the air dryer, can't see how it could fit into my system. Don't think the methanol bottle will work either as the compressor draws air from the pressure side of the L10s turbo. Don't like the idea of spraying Methanol direct into the system. Don't feel happy with the effectiveness of the tank draining. So that's me a fair weather driver, as they keep saying lately if your journey isn't really necessary stay at home..roll on springtime. PS. my Explorer was a fitted with snow plough on Air Flight Ranges, so I would expect it to have had it's share of Methanol, all valves and relays have been apart and found to be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Clive, Ah.. I thought that it might have been injected into the system neat. In its intended use it being vapourised in small quantity, there should be no damage caused. The system was made by the usual brake manufacturers, ie Clayton Dewandre, Bendix Westinghouse, etc, and it would have to be compatable with any rubber components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I buy my methanol as branded air brake antifreeze. I don'tknow whether Methanlol, bought as methanol is the same specification. I feel if what I am using is packed as Air brakeing anti-freeze, it ought to be compatible with the rubber seals in the system. I have never had any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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