phil munga Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) , might someone know the age of this or the extinguisher ? 2nd is the Pyrene fire extinguisher for use on Public Service Vehicles ( just as I told my friend ) might these have been used on millitary vehicles as well ? maybe should have had a separate post Edited November 23, 2009 by phil munga More info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hope the Webley has been deactivated... section 5 weapon, can earn you a free holiday if not:stop: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Usually the military Extinguishers were olive drab or Brown , with a decal instead of the brass instruction plate. another difference is that the civillian one had a one piece centre cilinder , and the military version had a soldered seam in it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woa2 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) If you look at the T of the extinguisher handle, it should have the date stamped on. I don't think it is Military as it has a brass instruction plate - the Military ones I have found all have a transfer of instructions. DO NOT USE THE EXTINGUISHER as the fluid inside gives off a poisonous gas when put on a fire. Best to empty it. Edited November 18, 2009 by woa2 Added a bit more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Hope the Webley has been deactivated... section 5 weapon, can earn you a free holiday if not:stop: In the Netherlands its free to own if its before 1945. Offcourse without the actual flares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford 369 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 In England even an incomplete flare pistol is counted as a firearm and must be licensed or deactivated Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 In England even an incomplete flare pistol is counted as a firearm and must be licensed or deactivatedNigel Unfortunatl;ey flare pistols are section five. For those outside UK, Class 1 firearms, ie rifled barrel target rifles etc, ned a Police firarm certificate, isuued by local force. Section 5, prohibited weapons require a licnce granted by the Secratary of State. The classification covers all sorts of things including pepper spray. My vet has a blow gun used to dart anthitiose animals. This counts as section 5 because the drugs used are 'Noxious Substances'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Brass Flare Pistols are normally WW1 production and the last two numbers of the year of manufacture are usually stamped on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil munga Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 The above items have been removed , But might be able to find out the number to age it ,, even thought there are parts missing firing pin hammer top catch what other means would there be to deactivate it , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) The above items have been removed , But might be able to find out the number to age it ,, even thought there are parts missing firing pin hammer top catch what other means would there be to deactivate it , A 3" slot cut in the barrel & cross pinned & the face that sits against the cartridge ground away then submitted to a proof house & stamped, without a proof house stamp it is still classed as a live firearm. Just because bits are missing doesn't mean it's deactivated, as it is it is a live firearm that has just been stripped down. Hand it to a section 5 armourer to have the work carried out. From: Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police De-activated firearms 2.12 Section 8 of the 1988 Act provides that, unless it can be shown otherwise, a firearm which has been de-activated to a standard approved by the Secretary of State so that it is incapable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile, is presumed not to be a firearm The 1988 Act requires that one of the two Proof Houses or some other person approved by the Secretary of State has marked the firearm and certified in writing (that is, provided a certificate) that it has been de-activated to the approved standard. No other person has been approved for this purpose. 2.13 De-activation specifications were first set by the Home Office in 1989. New specifications came into force on 1 October 1995 but are not retrospective. Therefore, a gun de-activated prior to 1 October 1995 to the old specifications remains de-activated for legal purposes. 2.14 The 1995 specifications encompassed a substantially greater range of firearms design, and are generally more stringent than the preceding (1989) standards. 2.15 The revised specifications enable alternative standards to be agreed on a caseby- case basis for the class of weapons listed in the Home Office publication “Firearms Law – Specifications for the Adaptation of Shot Gun Magazines and the De-activation of Firearms”. Any alternative standards will be equally stringent but will allow the weapons to retain some of the essential features required by collectors. The new specifications allow for agreement on alternative standards to be an on-going process. 2.16 Section 8 of the 1988 Act is an evidential provision and does not preclude the possibility that a firearm which has been de-activated in some other manner may also have ceased to be a firearm within the meaning of the 1968 Act. For example, guns held by museums that were recovered from wrecked ships and aircraft may be corroded to the point that they cannot be fired. This should not be confused with wear or missing parts that can be replaced. The final arbiter of whether the article fulfils the definition of a firearm at section 57(1) is a Court. Edited November 21, 2009 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Unless you can find the bits to complete it the cost of deactivating it will probably exceed its value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford 369 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 if you do go down the deac route you could do worse than using Ryton arms ,they did a webley 455 for me a couple of years ago and it was £75 including the charge from the proof house which was over £100 ponds cheaper than a local gunsmith wanted Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Remember also there is now a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for anyone found in the possession of a prohibited weapon. If the Police get involved and they can prove any delay in the weapon either being made safe or surrendered you will go to prision. A number of cases have been discussed recently on foruums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil munga Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 :nono: well I've told them , but they do'nt listen , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford 369 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 what they need to do is apply for a temporary licence which will then allow them time to contact an RFD and organise the deactivation Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) what they need to do is apply for a temporary licence which will then allow them time to contact an RFD and organise the deactivation Nigel No such thing for SECTION 5 PROHIBITED WEAPONS..... what they need to do is surrender it to the Police or put it in the care of a Section 5 RFD, no if's or buts... 6.13 Section 7 of the 1968 Act enables a chief officer of police to issue to a person a permit authorising them to possess a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies, or a shot gun, in any special case where it may not be necessary or desirable to issue a certificate. For example, a permit should in normal circumstances be issued to authorise the temporary possession by a relative or the executor of a deceased person, or the receiver of a bankrupt’s estate, of firearms or ammunition forming part of the property of the deceased person or bankrupt. Edited November 22, 2009 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil munga Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 The person that holds this has been told by someone else today , and will be now handed in to the police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougiebarder Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Would it not make more sense to hand it to a section 5 dealer, I'd have thought there would be less chance of getting arrested, and it might be more likely that a small piece of history was saved? (rather than being given a 5 year jail term, and having it melted down). Who was it that said the law is an ass?:??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Would it not make more sense to hand it to a section 5 dealer, I'd have thought there would be less chance of getting arrested, and it might be more likely that a small piece of history was saved? (rather than being given a 5 year jail term, and having it melted down).Who was it that said the law is an ass?:??? As long as you hand it to the Police with an explanation of how it came into your possesion there will be no problems. You can ask them to take it into there care while you decide what you want to do with it, most forces have contacts with Museums that have a "Museums Firearms Licence" that they may be able to pass it on to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougiebarder Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I know there might be a back story, but isn't that what the ex sqaddie thought? (the one that was supposed to have found the sawn off shotgun dumper over his fence). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I know there might be a back story, but isn't that what the ex sqaddie thought? (the one that was supposed to have found the sawn off shotgun dumper over his fence). Well the thread starts... A friend was left these items this week In which case I presume it means the original owner is dead & it's will be easy to prove how this chap came to be in posssesion of this firearm... General advice on receipt of firearms or ammunition 25.3 Where any firearm is handed to the police, the first priority is to ensure that it is not loaded. At no time should the gun be pointed in a direction where it might cause death, injury or damage if it were to discharge. If in any doubt, the advice of colleagues experienced in the handling of firearms should be sought. Whatever the individual circumstances, a receipt should be given and the occurrence recorded as “surrender of firearms and/or ammunition”. Subject to paragraph 25.5 below, a disclaimer should be signed if at all possible to facilitate lawful disposal. Care should be taken to ensure that the wishes of the person handing over the items are fully understood (see paragraphs below). Where guns are taken into the care of the police but remain the property of a certificate or permit holder, it is important that they are so stored that no damage can be caused to them and they are not destroyed without the consent of the owner. In such case, adequate records must be kept with regard to their safe-keeping. 25.4 Different considerations must necessarily apply to those cases when a person wishes to surrender a weapon in respect of which they do not have any lawful authority to possess. It is often the case that weapons may be held by people in ignorance of their illegality; they may be kept in homes where they have been overlooked or forgotten; or may have come into possession of their present owners through the death of relatives. 25.5 Anyone surrendering an illegally held firearm should be questioned discreetly with a view to establishing its history but, unless circumstances exist to give serious cause for concern as to its provenance (for example, if it appears to have been stolen), the person handing it in should not be pressed. The emphasis should be on creating an environment in which people hand in illegally held firearms. 25.6 Where it appears, for example, that a person who has inherited a firearm or shot gun wishes to retain it lawfully as a certificate holder or to arrange for its sale, it would be appropriate to consider whether the person concerned should be granted a firearm or shot gun certificate or issued with a permit under section 7 of the 1968 Act in order to regularise their position. In any instance, however, when it is believed that a serious offence involving a surrendered gun has been committed, normal police procedures should be followed and such enquiries as are necessary should be carried out in the usual way. Any decision to prosecute will be a matter for the discretion of the chief officer of police and the Crown Prosecution Service or Procurators Fiscal. Edited November 23, 2009 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil munga Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 that would rule out using the barrel for a chimney on a traction engine ornament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) that would rule out using the barrel for a chimney on a traction engine ornament Yep as it is still a firearms component part... you still need a Firearms cert for any component parts.. Component parts 13.69 Component parts of firearms are also subject to certificate control, and may be authorised if a shooter needs replacement or interchangeable parts. Spare cylinders for muzzle-loading revolvers are not used in national target shooting disciplines and should not normally be authorised. It should be noted, however, that some cased sets, both antique and modern reproductions, will contain a spare cylinder, or cylinders, and these may be properly included on certificate for both possession and use. 13.70 The term “component part” may be held to include (i) the barrel, chamber, cylinder, (ii) frame, body or receiver, (iii) breech, block, bolt or other mechanism for containing the charge at the rear of the chamber (iv), any other part of the firearm upon which the pressure caused by firing the weapon impinges directly. Magazines, sights and furniture are not considered component parts. Edited November 22, 2009 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Important to note in alll these cases. The offence is 'Possecion'. It is no defence to say I don't own it. I still'own' my pistols, I have legal title to them, it was never signed away. I don't however 'pocess' them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil munga Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 I've now found some more extinguishers , these work , the old chap that i got them from said he has canisters full of the ( transparent ) liquid for refilling , now after what has been said about this liquid on here and from what the old chap says , if it gets hot it gives off a gass that is deadly , he then shows me the said canisters , now some of them were leaking over wood that he burns in the house ???? He then went on to tell me that soldiers used to take it home to use it as polish , and that it was good for cleaning engines , so it was changed with pink dye ,, the extinguisher below is dated 1949 , also found nice old parafin tin this ones a bit later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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