Webley & Scott flare pistol & fire extinguisher

[phil munga]

, might someone know the age of this or the extinguisher ?

 

2nd is the Pyrene fire extinguisher for use on Public Service Vehicles ( just as I told my friend ) might these have been used on millitary vehicles as well ? maybe should have had a separate post

 

Edited November 23, 2009 by phil munga
More info

[Marmite!!]

Hope the Webley has been deactivated... section 5 weapon, can earn you a free holiday if not:stop:

[Maurice]

Usually the military Extinguishers were olive drab or Brown , with a decal instead of the brass instruction plate.

another difference is that the civillian one had a one piece centre cilinder , and the military version had a soldered seam in it .

[woa2]

If you look at the T of the extinguisher handle, it should have the date stamped on. I don't think it is Military as it has a brass instruction plate - the Military ones I have found all have a transfer of instructions.

DO NOT USE THE EXTINGUISHER as the fluid inside gives off a poisonous gas when put on a fire. Best to empty it.

Edited November 18, 2009 by woa2
Added a bit more

[Enigma]

Hope the Webley has been deactivated... section 5 weapon, can earn you a free holiday if not:stop:

 

In the Netherlands its free to own if its before 1945.

Offcourse without the actual flares.

[ford 369]

In England even an incomplete flare pistol is counted as a firearm and must be licensed or deactivated

Nigel

[Tony B]

In England even an incomplete flare pistol is counted as a firearm and must be licensed or deactivated

Nigel

 

Unfortunatl;ey flare pistols are section five. For those outside UK, Class 1 firearms, ie rifled barrel target rifles etc, ned a Police firarm certificate, isuued by local force. Section 5, prohibited weapons require a licnce granted by the Secratary of State. The classification covers all sorts of things including pepper spray. My vet has a blow gun used to dart anthitiose animals. This counts as section 5 because the drugs used are 'Noxious Substances'.

[REME 245]

Brass Flare Pistols are normally WW1 production and the last two numbers of the year of manufacture are usually stamped on the side.

[phil munga]

The above items have been removed , But might be able to find out the number to age it ,, even thought there are parts missing firing pin hammer top catch what other means would there be to deactivate it ,

[Marmite!!]

The above items have been removed , But might be able to find out the number to age it ,, even thought there are parts missing firing pin hammer top catch what other means would there be to deactivate it ,

 

A 3" slot cut in the barrel & cross pinned & the face that sits against the cartridge ground away then submitted to a proof house & stamped, without a proof house stamp it is still classed as a live firearm. Just because bits are missing doesn't mean it's deactivated, as it is it is a live firearm that has just been stripped down.

Hand it to a section 5 armourer to have the work carried out.

 

 

From:

 

Home Office

 

 

 

Firearms Law

Guidance to the Police

De-activated firearms

 

 

 

 

2.12

 

Section 8 of the 1988 Act provides that,

 

 

 

 

unless it can be shown otherwise, a firearm

 

 

 

 

which has been de-activated to a standard

 

approved by the Secretary of State so that it

is incapable of discharging any shot, bullet or

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

other missile, is presumed not to be a firearm

 

 

 

 

The 1988 Act requires that

 

 

 

 

one of the two Proof Houses or some other

 

 

 

person approved by the Secretary of State has

marked the firearm and certified in writing

(that is, provided a certificate) that it has

been de-activated to the approved standard.

No other person has been approved for

this purpose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.13

 

 

 

 

De-activation specifications were first

 

 

 

 

set by the Home Office in 1989. New

specifications came into force on 1 October

 

 

 

 

 

1995 but are not retrospective. Therefore, a

 

 

 

 

 

gun de-activated prior to 1 October 1995 to

 

 

 

 

 

the old specifications remains de-activated for

 

legal purposes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.14

 

 

 

 

The 1995 specifications encompassed a

substantially greater range of firearms design,

and are generally more stringent than the

 

 

 

 

 

preceding (1989) standards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.15

 

 

 

 

The revised specifications enable

alternative standards to be agreed on a caseby-

case basis for the class of weapons listed

 

 

 

 

 

in the Home Office publication “Firearms

 

 

 

 

 

Law – Specifications for the Adaptation of

 

 

 

 

 

Shot Gun Magazines and the De-activation of

 

Firearms”. Any alternative standards will be

equally stringent but will allow the weapons

to retain some of the essential features

required by collectors. The new specifications

allow for agreement on alternative standards

to be an on-going process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.16

 

 

 

 

Section 8 of the 1988 Act is an

evidential provision and does not preclude

the possibility that a firearm which has

 

 

 

 

 

been de-activated in some other manner

 

 

 

 

 

may also have ceased to be a firearm within

 

 

 

 

 

the meaning of the 1968 Act. For example,

 

guns held by museums that were recovered

from wrecked ships and aircraft may be

corroded to the point that they cannot be

fired. This should not be confused with

wear or missing parts that can be replaced.

The final arbiter of whether the article fulfils

the definition of a firearm at section 57(1)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is a Court.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2009 by Marmite!!

[REME 245]

Unless you can find the bits to complete it the cost of deactivating it will probably exceed its value.

[ford 369]

if you do go down the deac route you could do worse than using Ryton arms ,they did a webley 455 for me a couple of years ago and it was £75 including the charge from the proof house which was over £100 ponds cheaper than a local gunsmith wanted

Nigel

[REME 245]

Remember also there is now a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for anyone found in the possession of a prohibited weapon.

 

If the Police get involved and they can prove any delay in the weapon either being made safe or surrendered you will go to prision.

 

A number of cases have been discussed recently on foruums.

[phil munga]

:nono: well I've told them , but they do'nt listen ,

[ford 369]

what they need to do is apply for a temporary licence which will then allow them time to contact an RFD and organise the deactivation

Nigel

[Marmite!!]

what they need to do is apply for a temporary licence which will then allow them time to contact an RFD and organise the deactivation

Nigel

 

No such thing for SECTION 5 PROHIBITED WEAPONS..... what they need to do is surrender it to the Police or put it in the care of a Section 5 RFD, no if's or buts...

 

 

 

 

6.13

Section 7 of the 1968 Act enables a

chief officer of police to issue to a person a

permit authorising them to possess a firearm

or ammunition to which section 1 of the

1968 Act applies, or a shot gun, in any

special case where it may not be necessary or

desirable to issue a certificate. For example, a

permit should in normal circumstances be

issued to authorise the temporary possession

by a relative or the executor of a deceased

person, or the receiver of a bankrupt’s estate,

of firearms or ammunition forming part of

the property of the deceased person or

 

 

bankrupt.

 

Edited November 22, 2009 by Marmite!!

[phil munga]

The person that holds this has been told by someone else today , and will be now handed in to the police

[Dougiebarder]

Would it not make more sense to hand it to a section 5 dealer, I'd have thought there would be less chance of getting arrested, and it might be more likely that a small piece of history was saved? (rather than being given a 5 year jail term, and having it melted down).

Who was it that said the law is an ass?:???

[Marmite!!]

Would it not make more sense to hand it to a section 5 dealer, I'd have thought there would be less chance of getting arrested, and it might be more likely that a small piece of history was saved? (rather than being given a 5 year jail term, and having it melted down).

Who was it that said the law is an ass?:???

 

As long as you hand it to the Police with an explanation of how it came into your possesion there will be no problems. You can ask them to take it into there care while you decide what you want to do with it, most forces have contacts with Museums that have a "Museums Firearms Licence" that they may be able to pass it on to.

[Dougiebarder]

I know there might be a back story, but isn't that what the ex sqaddie thought? (the one that was supposed to have found the sawn off shotgun dumper over his fence).

[Marmite!!]

I know there might be a back story, but isn't that what the ex sqaddie thought? (the one that was supposed to have found the sawn off shotgun dumper over his fence).

 

Well the thread starts...

 

A friend was left these items this week

 

 

In which case I presume it means the original owner is dead & it's will be easy to prove how this chap came to be in posssesion of this firearm...

 

 

General advice on receipt of firearms

or ammunition

 

 

 

25.3

 

Where any firearm is handed to the

 

 

 

 

police, the first priority is to ensure that it is

 

not loaded. At no time should the gun be

pointed in a direction where it might cause

death, injury or damage if it were to

discharge. If in any doubt, the advice of

colleagues experienced in the handling of

firearms should be sought. Whatever the

individual circumstances, a receipt should

be given and the occurrence recorded as

“surrender of firearms and/or ammunition”.

Subject to paragraph 25.5 below, a disclaimer

should be signed if at all possible to facilitate

lawful disposal. Care should be taken to

ensure that the wishes of the person handing

over the items are fully understood (see

paragraphs below). Where guns are taken

into the care of the police but remain the

property of a certificate or permit holder, it

is important that they are so stored that no

damage can be caused to them and they are

not destroyed without the consent of the

owner. In such case, adequate records must

be kept with regard to their safe-keeping.

 

 

 

 

25.4

 

Different considerations must necessarily

apply to those cases when a person wishes to

surrender a weapon in respect of which they

 

do not have any lawful authority to possess.

It is often the case that weapons may be held

by people in ignorance of their illegality; they

may be kept in homes where they have been

overlooked or forgotten; or may have come

into possession of their present owners

through the death of relatives.

 

 

 

 

25.5

 

Anyone surrendering an illegally held

firearm should be questioned discreetly with

 

 

a view to establishing its history but, unless

circumstances exist to give serious cause for

concern as to its provenance (for example,

if it appears to have been stolen), the

person handing it in should not be pressed.

The emphasis should be on creating an

environment in which people hand in illegally

held firearms.

 

 

 

 

25.6

 

Where it appears, for example, that a

person who has inherited a firearm or shot

 

 

gun wishes to retain it lawfully as a certificate

holder or to arrange for its sale, it would be

appropriate to consider whether the person

concerned should be granted a firearm or

shot gun certificate or issued with a permit

under section 7 of the 1968 Act in order to

regularise their position. In any instance,

however, when it is believed that a serious

offence involving a surrendered gun has been

committed, normal police procedures should

be followed and such enquiries as are

necessary should be carried out in the usual

 

 

 

way. Any decision to prosecute will be a

matter for the discretion of the chief officer

 

of police and the Crown Prosecution Service

 

 

 

or Procurators Fiscal.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2009 by Marmite!!

[phil munga]

that would rule out using the barrel for a chimney on a traction engine ornament

[Marmite!!]

that would rule out using the barrel for a chimney on a traction engine ornament

 

Yep as it is still a firearms component part... you still need a Firearms cert for any component parts..

 

Component parts

 

 

13.69 Component parts of firearms are also

subject to certificate control, and may be

authorised if a shooter needs replacement

or interchangeable parts. Spare cylinders for

muzzle-loading revolvers are not used in

national target shooting disciplines and should

not normally be authorised. It should be

noted, however, that some cased sets, both

antique and modern reproductions, will

contain a spare cylinder, or cylinders, and

these may be properly included on certificate

for both possession and use.

 

 

13.70 The term “component part” may be

held to include (i) the barrel, chamber,

cylinder, (ii) frame, body or receiver, (iii)

breech, block, bolt or other mechanism for

containing the charge at the rear of the

chamber (iv), any other part of the firearm

upon which the pressure caused by firing the

weapon impinges directly. Magazines, sights

and furniture are not considered component

 

 

parts.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Marmite!!

[Tony B]

Important to note in alll these cases. The offence is 'Possecion'. It is no defence to say I don't own it. I still'own' my pistols, I have legal title to them, it was never signed away. I don't however 'pocess' them.

[phil munga]

I've now found some more extinguishers , these work , the old chap that i got them from said he has canisters full of the ( transparent ) liquid for refilling , now after what has been said about this liquid on here and from what the old chap says , if it gets hot it gives off a gass that is deadly , he then shows me the said canisters , now some of them were leaking over wood that he burns in the house ???? He then went on to tell me that soldiers used to take it home to use it as polish , and that it was good for cleaning engines , so it was changed with pink dye ,, the extinguisher below is dated 1949 , also found nice old parafin tin

 

 

this ones a bit later