Degsy Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 It was a shot in the dark Tim, it was the body shape I was going on, it reminded me of a photo I had seen somewhere of a dump truck and thought it looked similar. It will be interesting to see your photo , perhaps it will be the same one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Looks very stubstanial cross piece. Might it be an anchorage for snatch blocks to portee a gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 The pattern of steel appears to fit that of a cable hydraulic hoist. The angled or curved pattern across the top of the mast fits this description. Hanging down from the ends would be the pulleys contecting cables to the deck. The Wood Hydraulic Hoist & Body Company of Detroit, made them. Have a Wood hoist here to remount on an early 1920's Leyland. Some where here are some photos to post for comparison. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 This is what i think you have: or at least something very similar. I believe that these dump body's were made by the Heil Co and were fitted to trucks of all different sorts. The photo is fairly self explanatory, but the oil pump for the hydraulic cylinder is driven from the transmission. The two pulleys that you can see have cables running over them which connect to either side of the dumper body, but i cant see where the other end of the cable connects. As the hydraulic hoist is extended the cables raise the body up to an angle of 40 degrees. Degsy and Old Bill, you both probably know more about hydraulics than me so i am sure you can add more to it than what i have done. Thoughts please? Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) Identifying the truck type appears to be challenging due to the lack of very much of it surviving and also the angle of the photograph. However, knowing that it is a dump truck, it almost certainly belonged to the US Corps of Engineers. Now the preferred vehicles of the engineers was the Mack AC Bulldog, so that seems a good place as any to start. Looking at your photos, the most obvious thing is the curved and and narrow fire wall, which automatically makes me think of Mack AC bulldog. A bit like this one: With the coal scuttle type front end, the radiator behind the engine, the firewall is just slightly bigger than the radiator. Many thousands of these were used by the US Army and quite a number of them survive today. Edited September 20, 2009 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Tim, ever thought of Mastermind? :sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz76 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 A really interesting thread. Thanks very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 This is amazing. Keep it up, lads. Cheers! MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) This is what i think you have: or at least something very similar. I believe that these dump body's were made by the Heil Co and were fitted to trucks of all different sorts. The photo is fairly self explanatory, but the oil pump for the hydraulic cylinder is driven from the transmission. The two pulleys that you can see have cables running over them which connect to either side of the dumper body, but i cant see where the other end of the cable connects. As the hydraulic hoist is extended the cables raise the body up to an angle of 40 degrees. Degsy and Old Bill, you both probably know more about hydraulics than me so i am sure you can add more to it than what i have done. Thoughts please? Tim (too) Thats brilliaht Tim . I can't really add anything as I have never had any experience of anything like that, I hadn't even realised that hydraulic tipping gear had been used as early as that, even in the forties vehicles in this country were still being fitted with hand wound screw jack type tipping gear. I would have thought that the cables must be mounted on a spring loaded drum unless they had a powered winding mechanism, it would certainly be interesting to know. Do you know of a working example still surviving? Edited September 20, 2009 by Degsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Just too impressive alround - all of you guys are just amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Great photo Tim. What is the truck in your photo? It appears to have a front drive shaft. We are missing the horn sharped sections that extend out front of the body on the remains of the tipper body here. The reversed curves to the body sides are interseting. Ours are plain straight. I will endevour to photograph the Wood version of the hydraulic unit today as I couldn't locate the previous images. Trouble is it's surrounded by other gear. It shows a variation to shape of the top section, but the principle is the same. Were these hoists used at all in WW1 or are they latter additions? Any photos about? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Tim, ever thought of Mastermind? :sweat: Can you imagine... "and his specialised subject is submerged WW1 military vehicles around Hawaii". No, it wouldnt work, unless they let me bring a laptop and a book case with me. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I would have thought that the cables must be mounted on a spring loaded drum unless they had a powered winding mechanism, it would certainly be interesting to know. Do you know of a working example still surviving? Yes, it must be something like that. Old Bill will know. He probably wont post until tomorrow as he has been out firing a Sentinel steam wagon all weekend and will be shattered - and dirty. I have a photo of a surviving Nash Quad with the same mechanism, but have not been able to lay my hands on it. I will keep looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 A really interesting thread. Yes, this is my favourite thread ever by far. I am wondering what else will be down there. You get the impression that this could be the largest group of WW1 vehicles in the world. A tragedy that they are all under water and rotten. But as far as WW1 vehicles go, what an amazing collection. What will turn up next? Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Great photo Tim. What is the truck in your photo? It appears to have a front drive shaft. We are missing the horn sharped sections that extend out front of the body on the remains of the tipper body here. The reversed curves to the body sides are interseting. Ours are plain straight. I will endevour to photograph the Wood version of the hydraulic unit today as I couldn't locate the previous images. Trouble is it's surrounded by other gear. It shows a variation to shape of the top section, but the principle is the same. Were these hoists used at all in WW1 or are they latter additions? Any photos about? Doug That particular one is an FWD Model B. I have seen two different types of these mechanisms but all post war. FWD were offering it as a retro fit to reconditioned ones. I have seen a brochure for them, but i dont think i bought it. Wish i had now. As Degsy said most British tippers were hand cranked (even up to the 40's), so although this looks a bit primitive it is in fact quite advanced. The tipper on our Autocar is powered off the gearbox. Very innovitive for its day and very fast. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepSeaDrifter Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 This forum rocks!!!:yay: Fantastic detective work! What a cool vehicle too. I never would have figured out that one on my own. Dump truck.......never crossed my mind. I came across this photo online. It's a 1919 truck, but it looks like it's seen a few years, so no telling when the photo was taken or when the tipper assembly may have been added. Nice picture though. You can just see the pulleys at the top. I just wish we could see a little higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepSeaDrifter Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 So let's try one inverted. This vehicle we have actually come across a couple of times. It is in the Defensive Sea Area and not the WWI area, although we have found FWD's in both. I have this listed as "inverted FWD", but solely based on the similar wheels. If this is true I'm sure someone will be familiar enough with the chassis to confirm this or perhaps correct the ID. Surprisingly enough, this is the only vehicle I can think of that we've come across that is upside down....the rest are upright (except one of the tractors is on it's side). aloha, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Yes, i would agree. It certainly appears to be an FWD. Strange how this one landed upside down, or is it stranger that all the other ones landed on their wheels? There is not a lot to go on in the photos, the easiest part being the disc wheels - but Nash Quads used those as well. The give away is the axles which are quite unique to the Model B. Here is the back axle of one now in Canada: and the front axle of the same lorry: They compare quite nicely with your photographs. Also the gearbox/transmission is just visible in the centre of the truck. As for the engine, where did that go? Taken out before dumping or is it squashed into the sand? Thanks for posting these. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepSeaDrifter Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Here are a few photos of a couple of caterpillar tractors. One upright and one on it's side. I believe they were made by Holt in 1918 like the one in the photo I found for sale online (ebay, I think). These were discovered in the 90's before we started really surveying these artifacts. In those days they generally just looked them over briefly and cruised on by with very little as far a location or imagery. These are in the same area with the other older WWI era vehicles. My boss also noted that near these there was another vehicle that appeared to be a road grader. Unfortunately, no photos or video have been found on it (too bad). No telling what else might be in that vacinity if we ever got a chance to go back there for a good survey. I found an April 1916 Washington Post article describing how they intended to bring 24 Holt cats to Hawaii to form the first fully motorized artillery battallion replacing the horses that had been doing the hauling. They also mentioned that 3 of these cats were already in Hawaii in the unit plus two others that were strictly doing experimental studies. No telling if the 24 ordered ever actually arrived. Please post any corrections, information, or other observations on these vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Yes indeed. A pair of 5 ton Holts which when new would have looked like this: My figures say that 30 of them were sent to Hawaii and used for the movement of artillery. Here are some Holts in Hawaii, but i think that these are the larger 10 ton versions: I must have lent my Holt book to steve as i cant find it at the moment, but figures i have say 3,840 5 ton Holts had been delivered to the US Army by January 1919. They had a top speed of 7.4 miles an hour and they had clutch brake steering. Fantastic photos. Thanks. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 There was a 5 ton Holt on E bay!!!!! And i missed it!! Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepSeaDrifter Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 I came across this photo too. Would this be the same vehicle? It looks a bit different. This one doesn't seem to have the same 13 spoke wheel as the previously posted cats do. What is exactly the purpose of having a track wheel with 6 spokes on one end and 13 on the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 What is exactly the purpose of having a track wheel with 6 spokes on one end and 13 on the other? The wheel with 6 spokes is the front idler, and the one with 13 spokes is the drive sprocket, so it might have been to make it stronger. Otherwise it looks like the track gear is much the same as the previous photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Yes, it does look the same as the Holt. However the five ton ones were made by a variety of different companies (such as International), so it could be a design difference. I have found the same photo and there it is listed as a Holt, so maybe it was just a design change by Holt. This version was only experimental and was finished too late in the war to be used. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Here is a clip! Seating position looks a bit experimental. http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=76161 Comments please, as I am totally uninformed in this interesting area other than climbing on a Gyrotiller as a boy, if that counts? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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