DeepSeaDrifter

Here is the final vehicle from our last dive. It is pretty much just chassis with front fenders. I think the fenders look pretty similar to the earlier touring car. Another point of interest on it is the wheel appears to have had the wooden spokes which have long deteriorated. Not too exciting, but perhaps it may provide clues to these two cars identities. I've also added 3 more nice images from the touring car that are from the HD captures that I finally was able to get from the data dept. I don't know if they really provide any more insight, but they're different angles and one of them shows the opposite side. The front door is completely off there leaving me still uncertain as to whether that front door opens forward or aft. All comments and observations welcome. Enjoy. aloha, Steve

We do 3 "test and trial" dives at the start of each season in which we can dive pretty much where we want within a reasonable distance of Oahu. We start shallow and work our way to 2000m conducting exercises along the way. This is when we find most of our historical artifacts. However recently we have done some ordnance surveys and routing surveys (for power cables) that are also in the artifact rich areas south of Oahu. Our funding agency is NOAA and we're affiliated (employed by) with the Univ. of Hawaii. The rest of the time we're doing science dives around the islands and as far north as Midway and south as NZ. aloha, Steve

Next is another "challenging" vehicle. It was described by the pilot as being a panel truck. Obviously it is on its side (the first we've seen like that) and quite dilapidated. To me, the tires and caps look quite similar to the Plymouth's, and in fact they are pretty much on the same location. I think about 30m apart, which one could guess means they were dumped at the same time and may also be from that 30's-50s era. You may find a clue in the window shape or perhaps the under carriage will devulge something unique that I can't see. Good luck. These 4 vehicles (yes, one more coming) are in the 550m depth range. All were found on the same day. These last 2 and the next one (plus the Piper) by one sub and the touring car by the other. Probably within a half mile to a mile range. These last two are really the only ones very close to each other. The next one appears to be from the same era as the Touring car, but in very poor condition. Also lots of post-war ordnance in the area. Mostly bombs and a few torpedoes and hedgehogs. The rest of the vehicles we've found range from about 360m to 450m and come basically from two other areas, the Defensive Sea Area south of Pearl which is about 4 square miles which has revealed vehicles from both war eras, and a much smaller area to the east and inshore abit which we have basically done downslope runs through and has given us some really unique WWI artifacts (Holt cats, dump truck, Liberties, FWD's). Recoveries could be done but would require a submersible or a working class ROV, both would require a ship, which is the expensive part. I think our day rate is about 35k US$ per day (2 subs) and we're the rock bottom bargain basement deal out there (of the deep subs 1000m or more). There may be some one man subs that are less, but you still need a ship, so not significantly cheaper. About 70% of these vehicles are within 3 miles of shore so you would have to deal with the State too on those. Like with airplanes, I imagine the recovery portion would be the inexpensive part. Reversing the corrosion process and restoration might cost way more. Survey may actually be really be the best way to preserve them (cost-wise). aloha, Steve

Sorry I've been slow with the next vehicle. I was waiting on some captures from our new HD video cameras. I think you'll agree they were worth the wait. The inverted side view and the hub cap are from HD. The bumper and stern side view are shot through the viewport from the pilot. As you see this one is upside down and in pretty rough condition. The only really big clue here is that you can clearly read "Plymouth" on the side of the hub caps. Not much else to go on but the tires, which I assume place this more towards WWII. Still looking for a match on the previous car. I looked at a bunch of Willy's Overland as Tim suggested. Saw several that appear really close, but haven't found that perfect match. Perhaps its a year or so off the ones I'm viewing. I did see a historic photo of two cars that look very similar to this one, which was taken on the island of Molokai'i in about the 20's or 30's. I'm trying to get a copy. aloha, Steve

Well I thought we'd get shut out this season. Rough sea conditions forced us to move our "Test and Trial" dives from the target rich areas outside of Pearl Harbor and the Southern side of Oahu to the sheltered West side. We felt lucky just to find the wreckage of a F4U Corsair aircraft. The rest of the dive season was spent doing science dives throughout the islands, which rarely produce any wrecks, much less vehicles. However some late season scheduling produced 5 additional survey dives about 10 miles SE of Pearl. Deeper water than we've ever found any vehicles (about 550m range). As luck would have it, on our final day we found a Piper Cherokee airplane (1995 crash) and 3 vehicles. I'll start with the best one. This appears to be a touring car from the late teens to perhaps the late 20's, based on the spoked wheels. I haven't had a chance to really to look at many possibilities since we're still demobilizing, so I thought I'd share these images in case someone out there can positively ID it or at least point the right direction to narrow the candidates. Points of interest that might be unique, first of all would be the unusual doors. They appear to open on the same hinge. The back seat door seems to have a curve to it to accommodate the shape of the wheel. The door handle can be seen toward the back of the door. The forward door looks like it has a hole where that handle would have been and it would have opened swinging aft. The front headlights appear to be even closer together than most of the images of vehicles of this type that I've seen. The front fenders are quite dramatic in shape. The running board they would have connected to are missing. The pilot on this dive mentioned that the front windshield still actually had some of the glass in it.....amazing! Some of these cars have a two piece windshield, this one appears to have only one, however there are stubs on the top so maybe the upper broke off, but my guess is it just had the one we see. It has the high arcing back seat that I reckon had connected to a removable top. This is the first car/non-military vehicle we've come across (that was identifiable). That being said I thought I read somewhere that the senior officers for the first mobilized artillery battalion would ride in cars and the junior officers on motorcycles with side cars. Any thoughts, guesses, history, photos, and positive ID's are welcome. aloha, Steve

I've attached photos of three more unrelated artifacts. One is just a set of wheels, but spokes are interesting and I think it looks like it might have been part of an artillery cart. There seems to be an inner ring on the axle near one wheel so maybe it was used to lay communication cable. I'm sure there's other possibilities. Another item I believe is the front end of an FWD based on the radiator shape and the wheels. I think this one is especially interesting because the wheel has broke away from the axle. I remember Tim mentioned that the earliest ones would have had wooden spokes so perhaps this one did and they have rotted away. The last one with the missing radiator looks like an FWD too. This one is from the Defensive Sea Area, the other two were found on the same dive as the tar boiler (or water cart) in the WWI era area. This is my last post on this thread for a while. We are heading back out to sea for our dive season in another week. We have our usual "test and trial" dives, unfortunately none of them will be in the WWI era area which seems to produce the most vehicles. However, our first day we will make a 2 sub dive in the Defensive Sea Area and then out of it into an area we've never been through before. This dive will be entirely in the depth range where we tend to find vehicles, aircraft and lots of landing craft. The following 2 days will be in deeper water where we found the Japanese submarines and tend to find more ships and occasionally aircraft. Ordnance is found at all depths. I will post any new finds when I can. Thanks to everyone who has provided information, photos, comments and has even bothered to view this thread. It has been unbelievably helpful in identifying and developing a historical record on these great machines from a fascinating era. I hope to eventually incorporate them into our own website to share these and other artifacts we have found with others interested in our submerged cultural resources. Who knows....maybe someday it will lead to someone coming up with the funding to go down there and do a proper extensive survey. aloha, Steve

I must admit that I had no idea what a tar boiler was. However, since looking at a number of photos online, I am convinced that that is exactly what this wagon is. Although I didn't find an exact match, the shape of the bottom, wheels sizes, and the heavy duty spokes, seem to be common traits in all of them. I've attached a nice picture of a couple from South Australia. The taller one I believe was for sand. Info said they were used in the 1800's. We're starting to get into the final remnants of my vehicle photos. I've attached a couple of a vehicle that is pretty much chassis and a steering wheel. Not much to go on as a silt cloud was stirred up obscuring visibility, so the sub ended the survey and moved on. I was hesitant to even post this but this group has ID others with very little for clues before, so perhaps this is an unusual steering wheel (or angle) that might give it away. I have it listed as a mechanical mule, but I suspect that is wrong. It was found in the Defensive Sea Area, so could be WW II era. aloha, Steve

I think this next one is one of the strangest vehicles we've come across. It looks something like an old mining cart, but I suspect it may have been used for hauling ammunition. I think it's unusual in the difference in the size of wheels. It makes me think that it may have been designed for the back end to be very heavily loaded down and the front end not so much, perhaps it even had a rider. The large number of spokes used is also interesting. This was located in the WWI era area and on the very same dive as the dump truck and at least 3 truck chassis, one of which I believe is an FWD. I have been unable to dig up any old photos or restorations that match this one. I hope someone can provide some info or insight on the origin or use of this artifact. Any pictures, drawings, etc...would be fabulous. All comments and/or guesses are welcome. aloha, Steve

Here is the photo of the 1916 Harley Davidson that I mentioned. It shows the disk-like wheels. It's kind of hard to tell if the artifact actually has the same thing or if it has spokes and the marine growth has just filled it in. I don't know if this Harley was a military vehicle or not. Any thoughts on this? aloha Steve

Thanks for the feedback and great photos. Tim I especially liked the picture of the cats in Hawaii. Have you by chance come across any others from that era in Hawaii? The video clip was very cool. Nice to see the Holts in action. The next one is unique in that it is the only motorcycle we've ever come across. This was also discovered around the same time as the tractors and in the same vacinity. I'm sorry there are no other (or better) images of this. I even got the DVD from the data dept on campus and reviewed it and really there was nothing there that showed any more than this picture. The thin frame makes me think this is a WWI era bike. I looked at a number of photos and couldn't quite find a match, although I saw an early Harley (1916, I think) that was very similar. It had a disk-like front tire (as opposed to spoked) and had the small curved handle bars which I think this one looks like it may have. The same article about the tractors also mentioned that the junior officers in the mobilized artillery battalion would be switching over from horseback to motorcycles, some with side cars. Since everything else down there appears to be military, I have a hunch this one is too. aloha, Steve

I came across this photo too. Would this be the same vehicle? It looks a bit different. This one doesn't seem to have the same 13 spoke wheel as the previously posted cats do. What is exactly the purpose of having a track wheel with 6 spokes on one end and 13 on the other?

Here are a few photos of a couple of caterpillar tractors. One upright and one on it's side. I believe they were made by Holt in 1918 like the one in the photo I found for sale online (ebay, I think). These were discovered in the 90's before we started really surveying these artifacts. In those days they generally just looked them over briefly and cruised on by with very little as far a location or imagery. These are in the same area with the other older WWI era vehicles. My boss also noted that near these there was another vehicle that appeared to be a road grader. Unfortunately, no photos or video have been found on it (too bad). No telling what else might be in that vacinity if we ever got a chance to go back there for a good survey. I found an April 1916 Washington Post article describing how they intended to bring 24 Holt cats to Hawaii to form the first fully motorized artillery battallion replacing the horses that had been doing the hauling. They also mentioned that 3 of these cats were already in Hawaii in the unit plus two others that were strictly doing experimental studies. No telling if the 24 ordered ever actually arrived. Please post any corrections, information, or other observations on these vehicles.

So let's try one inverted. This vehicle we have actually come across a couple of times. It is in the Defensive Sea Area and not the WWI area, although we have found FWD's in both. I have this listed as "inverted FWD", but solely based on the similar wheels. If this is true I'm sure someone will be familiar enough with the chassis to confirm this or perhaps correct the ID. Surprisingly enough, this is the only vehicle I can think of that we've come across that is upside down....the rest are upright (except one of the tractors is on it's side). aloha, Steve

This forum rocks!!!:yay: Fantastic detective work! What a cool vehicle too. I never would have figured out that one on my own. Dump truck.......never crossed my mind. I came across this photo online. It's a 1919 truck, but it looks like it's seen a few years, so no telling when the photo was taken or when the tipper assembly may have been added. Nice picture though. You can just see the pulleys at the top. I just wish we could see a little higher.

Wow!!! I am truly amazed. You identified that vehicle from the radiator, firewall, and front bumper, with only the additional clue that it "might" be WWII era. From looking at the great pictures.....I am convinced you are correct. Well done!........and a big mahalo (hawaiian "thank you") to everyone who posted. So.....here's another tough one (I think). A few more photos on this "thing", but I wish we had some other angles. To me, this appears to be a towed vehicle (carriage, cart, caisson, limber), as that appears to towing bar with some kind of forked latch leaning upright at the front of the wagon (please excuse any improper nomenclature). But you can see forward of this another wheel and what looks like the front end of a vehicle. I suspected that perhaps this was the front end of a different vehicle which happen to land right next to it, but the pilot said he thought they were all one vehicle....which....looking at the tow bar....makes no sense to me. Additional clue, this is in the vacinity of the other WWI vehicles, which include a couple Holt 5t tractors (I'll post them later), so this could have been part of the motorize heavy field artillery unit started formed 1917. I'm probably off on this, but forward of the back wheels there is an angular shape that almost looks like it may have had tracks, perhaps the wheels were added later? or maybe they were interchangeable? Just a thought. The rocks on it are from dumped dredge spoils. Good luck. aloha, Steve

Thanks again Tim for the feedback and the great overhead view. You're a wealth of information. The next vehicle I think will be a bit of a challenge. I only have this one pilot photo as the video was pretty much junk. It was found years ago when or camera system was not as reliable and during our tests dives sometimes there's bugs to be worked out. Anyway this one seems to be mostly radiator and rust. The front bumper appears to be present and I had thought the portion behind the rad was the cab, but my boss (who was piloting that dive) said it was the firewall between the engine and cab. It was found in the Defensive Sea Area a few miles directly South of Pearl, an area mostly littered with WWII landing craft. It is pretty far from the other WWI era vehicles. It'd be happy to just get a time frame on this one. aloha, Steve

That's a really nice shot! I like it.

Thanks Tim for the helpful information. Interesting that most of the FWD's we've found have the metal disc wheels and this one has the angular. I guess it must mean they were changing them out at different times and they received whatever was available at the time. This next vehicle doesn't not appear to be an FWD. Looking at the twin back tires, spoked front, wheel fender, and just the general shape, I'm guessing it might be a USA "Liberty" flatbed truck. It was around the same time frame as the FWD's and was also a military vehicle. The full length image is from two video captures I photoshoped together. The other was shot with a point-and-shoot camera taken by the pilot through the viewport. Any ID, insight, history, or general comments are appreciated. aloha, Steve

Here is another vehicle from the same area. It appears to be another FWD, however it is different that it has the spoked wheels with an inner ring with in the spokes. Does anyone know if this is an earlier or later model? I saw a photo in the gallery of a brown FWD that has spokes like this one. Are the wheels the only difference? aloha, Steve

Wow! Thanks alot for the advert. That was just the sort of thing I was hoping to see. I think your definitely right that it was one of the 51. We have seen several of these vehicles, some inverted, some with one end or the other missing, and alot of bare chassis in which a few have tires like this one. I've a hunch they dumped them all out here when they were finished with them. They're to spread out to have washed off or have gone down with a barge. This one is certainly one of the better ones. I also have a truck image that is not one of these. Can't quite pin down the make exactly so I'll try and get it on here in the next couple days and maybe one of the expert here can. aloha, Steve

This vehicle was discovered a few miles South of Oahu, Hawaii about 400m deep using deep diving submersibles. There are a number of other various vehicles in the area in different states of deterioration. This one seems to be an identical match to a couple of the FWD Model B's I looked at in the gallery. Can anyone expand on this? Anyone have any history on these vehicles and their use in Hawaii? I suspect they are military versions which I believe were first used in 1917. When did they stop making them? Any other details anyone can offer would be much appreciated. aloha, Steve

Greetings from paradise. My name is Steve and I've been living on Oahu for 9 years (originally from Oregon). I work for the Hawaii Undersea Research Lab. We operate 2 Deep Diving Submersibles, the Pisces IV & V, which are rated to depths of 2000 meters. We do a few test & trial dives at the start of each dive season prior to taking out scientists. For years we've been conducting these dives a few miles outside of Pearl Harbor in an area that for decades was a dumping ground (or site of demise) for loads of ships, planes, submarines, amtracs, boats, a canoe, tons and tons of ordnance and a bunch of stuff that's a mystery. In one particular area we seem to have found a favorite spot for vehicles and such. Most appear to be pre-WWII. Anyway, I hope to share some images of these trucks, tractors, carts, a motorcycle and some items I can't quite figure out with you. In some cases they are pretty well preserved (considering) and others quite deteriorated and difficult to identify. However, hopefully someone on here will be able to help educate me on what we have here in our Museum of the Deep (about 400m). Mahalo Steve