andypugh Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The hooks were indeed part of the War Office specification with the War Office even determining the design. Probably the intention was to have a means of recovery, or a place to attach a rope that was easy to get at and minimised the risk of additional damage when recovering from a ditch Possibly just for general utility. Pulling down trees and walls, shifting things too heavy to lift, that sort of thing. Fire engines of the same vintage have similar hooks, and they were unlikely to be wanting help from a horse. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3716/9433449987_c939ffbd44_b.jpg For example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Seeing the primer on the bolt heads reminded me that you remove the modern stamp marks. How you doing this ie grinding, machining, sanding? It is great to see the level of detail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Seeing the primer on the bolt heads reminded me that you remove the modern stamp marks. How you doing this ie grinding, machining, sanding? It is great to see the level of detail All faced off in the lathe! What a job! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 We have been working on the front spring brackets and some of the fixings for those are also shared with the Radiator Guard mounts. So it seemed an ideal time to do a trial fitting of the Radiator Guard – looks alright! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 We have been working on the front spring brackets and some of the fixings for those are also shared with the Radiator Guard mounts. So it seemed an ideal time to do a trial fitting of the Radiator Guard – looks alright! Ah, so can we assume that your half-chassis had a different or no radiator guard? Do you think the spring hanger bolting arrangement was changed to meet the need for this style of radiator guard? trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) The half chassis still had one part of the original Radiator Guard on it - this was one of the "Side Plates" and this fitted like a glove on the full chassis that we are using. This Side Plate was used as a template to make the other. The "pink" parts have another history of their own - some time ago we were in regular contact with friends who were restoring two "J's" for a Museum - one was to be "military" and the other to be in its later civilian form. They mistakenly but understandably thought that both vehicles should have the Radiator Guard fitted but after making all new parts realised that the civilian form did not have the Guard and that it ran without one - so the second one was surplus to requirements and was donated to us. So we have used the one original part, one part made in house here, and the rest were the new parts given to us and made elsewhere! You may have noticed that the original part has an additional three holes in it which we do not think are "standard" but may have been put there for a light to be fitted during its later life after the War. Tony Edited February 28, 2014 by Minesweeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The half chassis still had one part of the original Radiator Guard on it - this was one of the "Side Plates" and this fitted like a glove on the full chassis that we are using. This Side Plate was used as a template to make the other. I recall it was a pain in the arse as the chassis lived on it side leaning on the garage wall in its time in Ruthin. I suspect it was fortunate not to get cut off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Further to the radiator guard points. The early J I have here has no holes in the sides of the chassis rails for bolting on a guard in the manner as shown in the photos. However there are two holes in about the right position on the top of the rail for the vertical steel and another two further back , also on the top where the slanting section would meet the chassis. It would appear these had additional flanges allowing them to be mounded on top of the chassis rails. I have a drawing in an advert showing the guard sections not extending down on the vertical face of the chassis rails. If only we had a parts book pre 1915 to compare with. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 That is interesting. I wonder if there are any photos showing the different types of guard clear enough? Do the front shackle castings extend as far back as the type used for the side-mounting radiator guard vehicles? As to the half chassis having different bolting locations for the front 'vertical' plate, that suggests the rear plate mountings should be in different position as well? trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 We have been working on the front end, and whilst there, we decided to get on and hang the front springs as the chassis and new shackle pins were all ready for them. We had a new full set of all four springs made some years ago and these have been gathering dust in the workshop until this day! It was not really our intention to have the springs made so early on but the offer came up from another Thornycroft owner who could have them made by a contact of his – and more importantly, he would provide his own set of springs to be copied. The springs that came with our chassis were beyond redemption. These two pictures show the springs cleaned, wire brushed and primed. The eyes in the Dennis springs were all bronze-bushed but as far as we can make out, the Thorny springs did not have bushes – the remains of the old springs that we took off the chassis were certainly not bushed and it seems that the original Thorny springs from which ours were copied were not bushed either. It does seem a bit strange that the shackle pins should just be inserted into the eyes of the springs – steel running in steel. Nevertheless, there seems to be plenty of room in the rear eyes of all four springs so we have decided to put bronze bushes in the rear ones only. The bronze was bored out to 11/16” for the front springs and turned to a comfortable push fit into the eye. Naturally and not unexpectedly, the 11/16” hole closed up when the bush was pressed into the eye and it was reamed through after insertion to open it up again for a comfortable fit for the shackle pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 The first front spring was then hung. No problem – apart from the weight for just one man working on his own! The first spring was then joined by the second one! We can set our sights on the rear ones now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Well impressed, as usual. :wow: You really will have to stop making almost complete trucks out of not much more than raw metal stock - it embarrasses the rest of us no end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I don't think there is anything odd about the hooks, they look very much the sort of thing to attach the chains of horse traces to tow the vehicle when either broken down or bogged down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Grime Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Gents, please could you tell me a bit more about the greasers on the shackle pins? I've seen greasers on stationary engines, large brass screw cups, but these look rather different. Are they push fit or screw fit, and how do they work? Please keep up this awesome thread; it's the best learning resource on the web... Best wishes, Will (in Dubai) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Are they push fit or screw fit, and how do they work? They screw into a threaded hole. The greasers are in two parts, a part which screws into the shackle, with a second external thread on the outer portion. Then the cap has an internal thread. You fill the cap with grease and screw it down onto the greaser body. One turn every day gives you a bit of grease until the cap is empty, then you remove it, refill, and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Eloquently described, Andy! The original type of Greaser was far prettier than the ones that we are using - they had brass caps with a "key" on top so that they were easy to hold for screwing them down. Those are very hard to come by now - we would very much like to find a source for those at a reasonable price but we pick up what we can at Autojumbles - but not nearly enough at the moment to have a full matching set. The ones that we are using are modern - some three of four years ago, our local supplier put some up for sale - much reduced in price at just 40p each - I guess there is very little demand for them and they were old stock. I asked him how many he had and if I remember correctly, it was something like about sixty! So at that price, I bought the whole lot - they have found homes in all of our lorries and we have passed some on to friends. Very glad that you are enjoying the story, Will! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The ones that we are using are modern - some three of four years ago, our local supplier put some up for sale - much reduced in price at just 40p each - I guess there is very little demand for them and they were old stock. I asked him how many he had and if I remember correctly, it was something like about sixty! So at that price, I bought the whole lot I have a CNC lathe sat idle most of the time. I ought to be able to make brass caps to suit the threads on the inner parts of your bulk purchase. I know exactly the style you describe, though a google images search has not turned up a single one (There is a similar-looking variant with a T-handle, but those have an internal piston and/or spring). I think you are referring to the type with a screw-down cap and a T-bar on top to make them easier to turn when slarted up to the eyeballs in lard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) With the work going on at the front end of the lorry, we now naturally thinks of the front wheels and axle as the next step. The pair of front wheels that came with the full chassis, part of the Shepherd’s Hut, are heavily rusted with one of the two wheels being much worse than the other. Some unlike metals in close proximity will corrode when water is present. There was a brass label on each of the wheels originally which showed the tyre size for the wheel – but the two unlike metals of the brass label and the steel of the wheel have corroded so that where the label was on one wheel, there is now a big hole where the steel has actually been corroded totally away. The other wheel is not so bad in the similar position but we guess that the brass label could have been lost, knocked off or removed many years ago so that there could be no heavy corrosion on that one in the equivalent position. The steel dish of the wheel – the front – must have been 3/16” or 1/4” thick originally and in many places, it has come down to “paper thin” through corrosion. We have been considering cutting out the worst sections and welding in new steel – but not an attractive and easy proposition! These three pictures will give some indication of the amount of the corrosion! We were discussing our progress with our friend Mike J in North Wales and our concern over the wheels was mentioned to him – Mike has an encyclopaedic memory relating to sources of bits and pieces relating to our hobby and remembered somebody in County Durham advertising a pair of Thorny front wheels for sale more than 25 years ago! He thought it worth a phone call to see if he still had them – and from his own records was able to come up with the name and phone number of the owner! So we phoned Graeme T in County Durham who confirmed that he had not sold the wheels and that he still had them! Apparently Graeme was involved with the purchase of a Saw Bench some 35 years ago and the two Thorny Wheels were part of the Saw Bench set-up! They were not wanted after the purchase of the Saw Bench and were put to one side – and then offered for sale some 10 years after that but never sold! Graeme very kindly sent some photos from which we could see that they appeared to be in excellent condition and very kindly agreed to sell them to us. The deal was done and these two photos show the condition of both. The brass tyre label was still on one with no sign of the corrosion that we might have anticipated. The tyres are of no use but we do have a good pair of second hand ones ready to go on the wheels in due course! The wheels have now safely arrived in Axminster and you can see from these photos that the thickness of the steel is still very good and will cause us no problems. They were loaded into the back of Tony’s car by three persons but he was left to unload them by himself – a “Three Wheatabix for Breakfast” man if ever there was! Over the years and with various things falling into our laps, we have said could this be a “Meant to be” and is this another example? Edited March 16, 2014 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 They may have looked something like this or this... The brass greasers sit on an early Leyland and are very fragile. I'm not at all sure how to unscrew them without destroying them - any ideas? The steel greaser screws into the top of the larger kingpin cap. Same vehicle. Different design. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Could you try a bit of gentle heat? Don't overdo it........ Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 With the work going on at the front end of the lorry, we now naturally thinks of the front wheels and axle as the next step. The pair of front wheels that came with the full chassis, part of the Shepherd’s Hut, are heavily rusted with one of the two wheels being much worse than the other. Some unlike metals in close proximity will corrode when water is present. There was a brass label on each of the wheels originally which showed the tyre size for the wheel – but the two unlike metals of the brass label and the steel of the wheel have corroded so that where the label was on one wheel, there is now a big hole where the steel has actually been corroded totally away. The other wheel is not so bad in the similar position but we guess that the brass label could have been lost, knocked off or removed many years ago so that there could be no heavy corrosion on that one in the equivalent position. The steel dish of the wheel – the front – must have been 3/16” or 1/4” thick originally and in many places, it has come down to “paper thin” through corrosion. We have been considering cutting out the worst sections and welding in new steel – but not an attractive and easy proposition! These three pictures will give some indication of the amount of the corrosion! What happens to any water that gets between the front and back plates of the wheel, does it just pool in there with the dust and leaves until it evaporates? I assume that those screws to fix the brass plate also go through the wheel into that space, potentially allowing moisture to wick through? I am very pleased to see you managed to get some good replacements. trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super6 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Interesting to see the size of wheels is metric, I thought we were still using the imperial system for weights and measures back then :confused: ..................or were they originally brought in from the continent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Solid rubber wheels were always in metric, aside from the Americans who used imperial measurements. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Solid rubber wheels were always in metric, aside from the Americans who used imperial measurements. Doug I remember going to somewhere in the outskirts of Chester to fetch a pair of those with father, there was a Burrell steam roller there red rusty in the yard. What happened to those? P.S has Graeme done more on his Fowler yet? last time I was there he had just had the boiler back. He is a top notch engineer and rebuilt the Boer War Fowler road engine for its owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 He is still working on it - but as you say, a first class Engineer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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