ArtistsRifles Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 In a similar vein to what I said earlier - we did a "Walk and shoot" exercise in an urban environment with US troops over in the states - they had the 5.56 mm M16, we had the 7.62mm SLR. On more than one occasion during the day the US troops were laid down waiting for a target to appear (as the tip of the target could be seen) and peppering away at the walls. We just put one 7.62mm round through the wall and through the target and carried on....... Most of the US guys soon stopped laughing at our "antiquated" weapons... The ones that didn't were treated to the old gas regulator trick on the ranges - we fired our set using the no 4 setting - then made sure those that laughed got the GR set to "G".... :evil: :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVRTNick Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Hi, I hope the SLR bits has been of help,I should say that I bought a new spec SLR,but it came with a mix of wood & plastic.So I had to make up both sets,I can say that out of all the weapons I display at shows.The SLR is the most popular with the public,as well as a de-act,a mate had a wooden film prop SLR which he displayed (desipite being warned that nothing worked,he tried to change the mag & broke off the mag lever/button). Regards, Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Done an exercise in the states (Purple Star) with the USMC and done a weapons exchange, gave them our SA80 we had their M16, they didnt like how complicated it was however they did like the fully automatic fire, as the M16 had a 3 round burst feature. I have fired the No.4 Lee Enfield, SLR and IW (SA80) the Lee Enfield was nice and accurate, but no good these days with auto weapons, the SLR was a big mother of a rifle and makes you feel like god, the IW you can carry more ammo and you get full auto. Personally i preferred the later rifle, i could get more accurate fire down with it, and i never had a moments problem with my own issue weapon. Yes its more complicated than other weapons, but not a problem with training, and i think the latest H&K modifications have sorted it out properly. But the GPMG still rates as my favourite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Hi, I hope the SLR bits has been of help,I should say that I bought a new spec SLR,but it came with a mix of wood & plastic.So I had to make up both sets,I can say that out of all the weapons I display at shows.The SLR is the most popular with the public,as well as a de-act,a mate had a wooden film prop SLR which he displayed (desipite being warned that nothing worked,he tried to change the mag & broke off the mag lever/button). Regards, Nick. Aah, so was it you I got the plastic bits from via Mike? Very kind. James and I are in two minds at the moment. We think we could play with the front to make the plastic bits fit, but I like the originality of the thing. I do need a butt plate. To recap, I bought a metal one which does not fit in any shape or form, so I will get a plastic/rubber one to do the job. Up close the thing is obviously a lump of wood and iron. But it is just really cool in an odd way. You will see that there is yet another version of the L85 about to hit the desert. They've added a new foregrip and picatinny rail to it. It's been under test - but I've seen it looking pretty standard in recent snaps from Afghan. There will also be a lot of new kit, so expect even more of the older desert cam, body armour and GS6 helmets to be in the marketplace. MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Done an exercise in the states (Purple Star) with the USMC and done a weapons exchange, gave them our SA80 we had their M16, they didnt like how complicated it was however they did like the fully automatic fire, as the M16 had a 3 round burst feature. I have fired the No.4 Lee Enfield, SLR and IW (SA80) the Lee Enfield was nice and accurate, but no good these days with auto weapons, the SLR was a big mother of a rifle and makes you feel like god, the IW you can carry more ammo and you get full auto. Personally i preferred the later rifle, i could get more accurate fire down with it, and i never had a moments problem with my own issue weapon. Yes its more complicated than other weapons, but not a problem with training, and i think the latest H&K modifications have sorted it out properly. But the GPMG still rates as my favourite! Cross the armourers palm with silver and you got a fully auto SLR. Problem then was controlling it.... :cool2: :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVRTNick Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I glad the bits were useful,does it take the sling?I afraid that keeping up with current weapons,is a bit like keeping up with the Joneses!I stick with my wooden minimi & l86/lsw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Cross the armourers palm with silver and you got a fully auto SLR.Problem then was controlling it.... :cool2: :cool2: Apparently as an in field mod you could hold back a sear or such like, with the use of a yoghurt pot and some sticky back plastic! But when you pulled the trigger it didnt stop until the mag was empty....which sounded like fun...probably would of hit everything except what you started to shoot at! As an interesting but totally useless piece of information, you can fire an SLR while holding it with one hand like a pistol, hold it upright, wrapping your forearm through the sling and then slowly bring the barrel down onto the target and gently squeeze off the trigger.......dirty harry eat your heart out. Dont ask how i know this:cool2: Edited December 1, 2008 by Adam Elsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 I glad the bits were useful,does it take the sling?I afraid that keeping up with current weapons,is a bit like keeping up with the Joneses!I stick with my wooden minimi & l86/lsw. All looks good, many thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Apparently as an in field mod you could hold back a sear or such like, with the use of a yoghurt pot and some sticky back plastic!But when you pulled the trigger it didnt stop until the mag was empty....which sounded like fun...probably would of hit everything except what you started to shoot at! As an interesting but totally useless piece of information, you can fire an SLR while holding it with one hand like a pistol, hold it upright, wrapping your forearm through the sling and then slowly bring the barrel down onto the target and gently squeeze off the trigger.......dirty harry eat your heart out. Dont ask how i know this:cool2: Normally used for taking a pop around corners :-) Mods for fully auto involved stripping the weapon down and modifying the profile of the safety catch - hence the armourer. Once done the safety catch could be pressed down with the thumb to single shot and thence fully auto as in the FN/FAL. Powers-that-be frowned upon such mods but they came in useful - as in fooling the bad guys into thinking you had more firepower than you really had.. All the world's bad guys - and those acting the role on exercise - knew the UK SLR was single shot only so when a 7.62mm hailstorm went their way it was obvious, wasn't it, that you had a GPMG fire team in support.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james-sas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 im finding these quirks really intersting!! one thing you guys might help with.. is it correct that the l4a1 mags were useless in a S.L.R as they were gravity assisted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 im finding these quirks really intersting!! one thing you guys might help with.. is it correct that the l4a1 mags were useless in a S.L.R as they were gravity assisted? I think useless is a bit strong. True the L4A1 mag was gravity-fed and so the spring did not give as much umph, risking a stoppage as the number of rounds in the mag dropped, But I heard of people taking the risk and I also heard of people modding the springs (putting two LMG springs into one mag rings a bell). Then there's the issue of firing prone: a 50% longer mag hanging off the bottom of your SLR means you are going to ground the mag far sooner. But it was all such a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james-sas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thank you for clearing that up, agreed useless was a tad strong! dependant who you speak to there reactions all vary! was the use of a l4 mags shunned?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 TBH I never saw it done. I cannot recall our troop in NI even having an LMG, though I am sure it must. Bazz was in the next troop and carried an LMG. Thinking about it, the rounds we were issued, there was no issue about using a bigger mag to carry them all. All I have said was hearsay. I'd guess the use of LMG mags would be governed by the individual troop sergeant's opinion on the matter, but entirely unofficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james-sas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 i try to portray the soldier as accurately as i can so all info greatly welcomed, as i want to do you guys justice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 US guys? You are portraying THEM as WE call them lol. That said, other nations did have a lot of trouble separating recce from SF in their minds, largely because most other armies title their SF as Recce. I heard a lovely story recently. The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards provided a battlegroup for Op Granby in 1991. Manning was an issue because of the recent end of the Cold War and the evident necessity to slash the OrBat of the Royal Armoured Corps. Many reservists were called up, including a friend, and attached to Scots DG. Now Scots DG wear a grey beret, unlike most of the RAC who wear navy (cavalry) or black (RTR), so when all these reservists turned up with blue berets, the QM issued them with grey. The recce-trained 15/19H reservists were sent to the recce troop. On Granby (Desert Storm to the Americans), obviously the troops were in close proximity to the Americans much of the time.. On one occasion, the 15/19H guys, with strange cap badge and red felt backing, were clocked by some Americans who wondered who these guys were. "Oh, they're our Close Reconnaissance Troop." If you remember, at the end of GI Jane, Demi Moore, having completed her training in the Navy Seals, is posted to a Close Reconnaissance Team. Until I pointed out this quirk of troop nomenclature a few months ago, my mate had always wondered why the Americans used to salute, high-five and generally revere his troop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james-sas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 sorry should have said, i also do the argyll's! but i try to get things such as webbing, weapon procedures etc as close as possible, rather than just wear a uniform!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 How have you got time for all this, lad? Post some snaps and send us back down memory lane...or nightmare avenue, depending on one's feelings about it all. Good hunting. MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james-sas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 will do! with pleasure! have to get everything together! collections are a bloody addiction! i cant stop buying!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 In addition to the SUIT sight for general issue to the infantry, we did have NOD sights for SLRs. ISTR they were mounted onto a spare cover and simply swapped in / out for night / day use, which raised the question of breaking the zeroing every time you changed sight. This was an issue with the SLR anyway because backsight was mounted on one half of the broken rifle and foresight on the other half, so that shooting pedants would never break the rifle for cleaning after zeroing. If this caused a stoppage, the SOP was to wind up the gas setting until the gun fired. In checking the derivation of the acronym NOD, I managed to find Clive's own work on this subject on this forum at: http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/Tabby04.pdf It is a Myth that did the rounds in the Service that 'Breaking the weapon altered the zeroing'. As a Professional Service Armourer, I was attached to Numerous shooting teams. The Cr*p that some of them came up with never failed to astound me. Many a Pre-Madoner had little theroys on this or that subject, a lot of it rubbish! It is correct that because of the design of the rifle. The front & rear sights were on two different mountings. Any Armourer woth his salt could tighten up any body movement with a special tool that was issued. I have done thousands over the years. There is much that could be done to accurise the weapon, & indeed was. But this was always a combat weapon & NOT a target rifle. The demands set upon it for competion use were a littel high, though not unachieveable. Winding up the gas regulator would make no difference in braking the rifle to clean / inspect. All the gas system was on the front half! If wound out too much, only damage would result. If a Rifle was not ejecting correctly. We also had a set of special reamers to open out the gas port a little. This usually corrected a troublesome ejection problem. I found in my personal expireince, that not wanting to open the rifle to clean it was an excuse to simply NOT clean it as often as it should have been! :nono: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Cross the armourers palm with silver and you got a fully auto SLR.Problem then was controlling it.... :cool2: :cool2: No, the problem was IF YOU GOT CAUGHT WITH IT!... :nono: the Danger was, some guy who had the 'Magic' done by an 'Anynonemous' :cool2: Armourer. Sometimes forgot to change back the componants to standard before returning the weapon to the Armoury after usage! OPPS! :shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 im finding these quirks really intersting!! one thing you guys might help with.. is it correct that the l4a1 mags were useless in a S.L.R as they were gravity assisted? Not quite correct. They were ok with blanks because the round were lighter. BUT, only filled with 28 rounds of ball were thay useful. if you think about it, you are asking the magazine to opperate in 180 degrees differntly to the way it was desighned to work! Also the spring was flat steel strip. The SLR had steel wire & was much stronger. :coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Normally used for taking a pop around corners :-) Mods for fully auto involved stripping the weapon down and modifying the profile of the safety catch - hence the armourer. Once done the safety catch could be pressed down with the thumb to single shot and thence fully auto as in the FN/FAL. Powers-that-be frowned upon such mods but they came in useful - as in fooling the bad guys into thinking you had more firepower than you really had.. All the world's bad guys - and those acting the role on exercise - knew the UK SLR was single shot only so when a 7.62mm hailstorm went their way it was obvious, wasn't it, that you had a GPMG fire team in support.... When the above MOD was done, the Armourer also had to shorten the trigger return plunger as well. This would have prevented the weapon from firing full auto by retricting the amount of rearward travel of the trigger. As a better add on to the Guchi kit the guys wanted. I used to mdify a pair of plasit front handguards & a GPMG bipod assembly. I fitted this to the rifle to make it a bit more stable when firing full auto. But the min reason it was done was for the IWS sight for observation work. They got VERY heavy after a few hours! This was TOTALY unofficial, but unofficialy sanctioned within the unit. I was attached to the Paras at this time in my career. :shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 A lot of our SLR's were converted to full Auto in my day Mike - but then neither Regiment didn't exactly follow "normal" Army procedures in most things. The O/C we had was of the "if it works - lets use it" school. Can't speak for his successors of course as this was nigh on 30 years ago now. Back then the armoury at Chelsea included 7.62mm SLR's, 9m SMG's (normal and silenced), 66mm LMG's, 7.62mm GPMG's, 66mm LAW's, 88mm Charlie G's) 7.62mm Lee Enfield Mk IV T's, 9mm Browning Hi-Power's, A couple of FN/FAL's MP40's, AK-74's, a couple of Dragonovs, PPSH's, M16's HK's. And some other odd-ball stuff I can't recall!! A happy place to spend a working weekend!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 A lot of our SLR's were converted to full Auto in my day Mike - but then neither Regiment didn't exactly follow "normal" Army procedures in most things. The O/C we had was of the "if it works - lets use it" school. Can't speak for his successors of course as this was nigh on 30 years ago now. Back then the armoury at Chelsea included 7.62mm SLR's, 9m SMG's (normal and silenced), 66mm LMG's, 7.62mm GPMG's, 66mm LAW's, 88mm Charlie G's) 7.62mm Lee Enfield Mk IV T's, 9mm Browning Hi-Power's, A couple of FN/FAL's MP40's, AK-74's, a couple of Dragonovs, PPSH's, M16's HK's. And some other odd-ball stuff I can't recall!! A happy place to spend a working weekend!! During my time with 21 - I saw GPMG, M16, 9MM browning, SA80 and some sniper thing. Oh and a MIMI (think that's what it is called). Never saw anything else. Weaponry was never my interest though - I was only ever concerned about their green fleet. The state of that was bad enough. Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james-sas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 so essentially what i'm asking is am i correct by troopers choice of personal weapon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.