retalator Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Hi all looking for a Lee Enfield mk4 deactivated rifle. Old spec that strips and dry fires. have the money so cash buyer willing to travel based in Leicestershire send me a message 07834587041 thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 I have to admit to being baffled by the changes to deactivation specs; but does not the new legislation (EU-driven, if I recall correctly so doubly baffling in the brexit age) mean 'old spec' weapons can still be owned but not sold or otherwise transferred? I await the definitive view with eager anticipation. All the best. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad dan eccles Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 13 hours ago, Adrian Dwyer said: I have to admit to being baffled by the changes to deactivation specs; but does not the new legislation (EU-driven, if I recall correctly so doubly baffling in the brexit age) mean 'old spec' weapons can still be owned but not sold or otherwise transferred? I await the definitive view with eager anticipation. All the best. A I believe that to be the case, though I'm sure many "old spec" are still sold/moved on one way or another. Seems a bit dense to me taking a weapon that's had the barrel pinned and cut through with a disc saw and the firing pin made U/S sent off to have the working parts welded shut in order to sell it on again, but then the powers that be are pretty good at doing pointless and ridiculous policies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) bottom line is you are asking for someone to make a totally illegal sale to you ... unless change of ownership of an "old spec" deac is done through a registered firearms dealer (who would need to get it re-deac to modern spec before passing it on to the new owner) then said original owner would be committing a criminal offence liable to a fine and/or imprisonment Any de-activated firearm deactivated prior to the new Specifications of 5 March 2018 (UK implementation date 28 June 2018) is a ‘defectively-deactivated’ firearm and cannot be sold, purchased or gifted, but possession on the other hand is permitted. https://library.college.police.uk/docs/appref/Deactivated-Weapons.pdf Edited August 19 by john fox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman 02 Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 Not being part of the re-enactment scene means my knowledge of de-activation regulations is admittedly very limited, but all these 'acts' designed to limit firearm crime seem like pissing in the wind to me .. if a criminal wants a firearm he/she will find a way to obtain one & an obsolete rifle is likely to be their very last weapon of choice. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad dan eccles Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 I found the new policy on UK spec deac's to be lunacy as the standard at the time, for a Lee Enfield at least if the 2 I have are anything to go by, meant effectively taking the wooden components and the magazine off (if the magazine wasn't welded/pinned in place) and inserting a new breech, bolt/firing pin and barrel assembly. to which you might as well have just gone out and gotten your hands on a live weapon from somewhere. Now if the weapon was deactivated to the Czech standard ( I believe it was ) where they just pulled the firing pin out and left it at that (IIRC) then some undesirables went trigger happy in France with them over a cartoon and you were bringing in a stricter policy on just those nations deactivation rules I could understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 On 8/20/2024 at 9:36 AM, norseman 02 said: Not being part of the re-enactment scene means my knowledge of de-activation regulations is admittedly very limited, but all these 'acts' designed to limit firearm crime seem like pissing in the wind to me .. if a criminal wants a firearm he/she will find a way to obtain one & an obsolete rifle is likely to be their very last weapon of choice. Just my opinion. stats show that converted deacs are undoubtedly a factor in crime . what isn't reported accurately is whose deac standard it is. Back in the 1990s when "consultation" was open on the proposed changes, it was pointed out that EC harmonisation was a farce as existing UK standard was far higher than in new EC members, Sadly though neither Brexit nor reality has changed public opinion that a gun is a gun, not a 3D piece of ironwork. I offer no comment on whether GB News is a source of "robust" reporting but ,,,, Majority of firearms used in UK gun crime come from overseas, police reveal (gbnews.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) In theory you can’t legally sell or transfer a pre-EU spec deact unless it is to the holder of a UK museum firearm license or it is exported out of the UK. In practice the law is essentially pointless and almost unenforceable = it is being widely and fairly openly ignored. The powers that be either haven’t noticed or don’t care as I have never heard of any prosecutions. (If the gun concerned hasn’t been literally ‘defectively deactivated’ and is legal to possess then where would be the Public Interest in a prosecution?) As an example, I was at the Military Odyssey show this weekend and there were various pre-EU spec deacts openly for sale and I also noticed the presence of some members of Kent Police. As far as I know they weren’t pulling people up on the dates on deact certificates. The overkill EU-spec is awful as the gun cannot be cocked or stripped and I wouldn’t personally waste my money on one. I wish the OP luck in sourcing a sensibly deactivated No.4. Edited August 27 by Enfield1940 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Suslowicz Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Ah... I hadn't realised that lunacy extended to bolt-action weapons as well (thought it was only handguns and automatic/semi-automatic weapons). Thanks for that, you've just convinced me to not look for a No.5 Rifle to go with the 44 pattern webbing set. (I shan't bother looking for a No.5 or similar bayonet & scabbard to fit the utility pouch, either.) :-( Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 3 hours ago, Enfield1940 said: In theory you can’t legally sell or transfer a pre-EU spec deact unless it is to the holder of a UK museum firearm license or it is exported out of the UK. In practice the law is essentially pointless and almost unenforceable = it is being widely and fairly openly ignored. The powers that be either haven’t noticed or don’t care as I have never heard of any prosecutions. (If the gun concerned hasn’t been literally ‘defectively deactivated’ and is legal to possess then where would be the Public Interest in a prosecution?) As an example, I was at the Military Odyssey show this weekend and there were various pre-EU spec deacts openly for sale and I also noticed the presence of some members of Kent Police. As far as I know they weren’t pulling people up on the dates on deact certificates. The overkill EU-spec is awful as the gun cannot be cocked or stripped and I wouldn’t personally waste my money on one. I wish the OP luck in sourcing a sensibly deactivated No.4. There is something very much wrong with this picture. I have no dog in the fight but a test case is required to establish how, if have have understood the position correctly, an item not even classed as a firearm can retrospectively become a defectively deactivated weapon to the extent it cannot be sold or given away: but remains legal to own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Suslowicz Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 It is _utterly_stupid. My recollection of the "old spec" deactivation for the No.4 rifle (and similar designs) involved shortening the firing pin, cutting the bolt face away at an angle, slotting the receiver (and weakening the locking lugs) and slotting and pinning the chamber, plus blocking the barrel. Since the barrel and receiver were "shrink fitted" there was no possible way the resultant ornament could be turned back into a firearm - it'd be easier to start from scratch! It was all done to pacify the scaremongering Press, who were using the outrage to boost their sales. (This is why the country really needs Leveson 2.) [puts soap box away and goes to make coffee] Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, Adrian Dwyer said: There is something very much wrong with this picture. I have no dog in the fight but a test case is required to establish how, if have have understood the position correctly, an item not even classed as a firearm can retrospectively become a defectively deactivated weapon to the extent it cannot be sold or given away: but remains legal to own. ‘Defectively deactivated’ is just a form of words used in the legislation to mean ‘not deactivated to the current spec’. A test case on whether ‘defectively deactivated’ should be taken literally would be interesting, but obviously nobody would want to be on the receiving end of one. Unfortunately to the layman, ‘banning the sale of defectively deactivated weapons ‘ probably SOUNDS like something positive is being done about gun crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 It cost the Goverment an estimated 95 million pounds when they banned hand guns. Hence why they came up with the plan to let people own the Fire Arms for their lifetimes as old spec but not pass them on without further deactivation work. To have seized all deactivated forearms would have costed hundreds of millions in compensation which legally they could avoid paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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