The Rolls-Royce C diesel engine

[Mark Ellis]

I wonder if anyone can enlighten me on the Rolls-Royce C engine of the 1960s, please.

As I understand it, they're a range of straight/pure diesel engines equivalent to the B series petrol engines. As in B40, B60 and B80

I've asked Rolls-Royce archive, but they've changed hands so many times that I think they've lost a lot. I was told that the C engine back in the 1960s was a prototype, and dropped.

It's been suggested that Stalwart PV3 had a C engine and Allison auto or semi auto box, back in 1961. I've asked Allison transmission, and they asked someone, who didn't know. But Allison is owned by the same people as Rolls-Royce, and they all base themselves in America.

I have this image, which I think is an Allison semi auto box, but I can't even find a clearer version of this image. It draw a blank at Allison and RR.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

 

 

[john1950]

There were C4, C6, and C8 versions of the C engine range. They were both N/A, Supercharged with a Roots blower or Turbocharged. All had wet liners. They were built either with a Ferrous or Non Ferrous block and the block could be assembled either way around to give Left or Right hand rotation.    

[Mark Ellis]

Just now, john1950 said:

There were C4, C6, and C8 versions of the C engine range. They were both N/A, Supercharged with a Roots blower or Turbocharged. All had wet liners. They were built either with a Ferrous or Non Ferrous block and the block could be assembled either way around to give Left or Right hand rotation.    

That's brilliant, @john1950

Any dates, or documents, please?

[john1950]

I do have some manuals, I will have a look and see what I can find. RR C6 NA was retro fitted to Diamond T's after WW2 in a SLEP program. They were also fitted in Thornycroft Mighty Antar's in both 6 and 8 cylinder versions. Some ASR launches had them fitted. They were also fitted in some Locomotives. They were used by Vickers in 4 and 6 cylinder versions in the Vicon and Vigor range of bulldozers, also International in the TD20. Later on a basically cheaper version designated Falcon SF65 slightly less swept volume came along and it morphed into the RR Eagle range. In round figures they were 2lts per cylinder. Later engines with 4 valve heads used a 15;1 compression ratio instead of 14;1. 

Edited June 8 by john1950
addition

[Mark Ellis]

1 minute ago, john1950 said:

I do have some manuals, I will have a look and see what I can find. RR C6 NA was retro fitted to Diamond T's after WW2 in a SLEP program. They were also fitted in Thornycroft Mighty Antar's in both 6 and 8 cylinder versions. Some ASR launches had them fitted. They were also fitted in some Locomotives. Later on a basically cheaper version designated SF65 slightly less swept volume came along and it morfed into the RR Eagle range. In round figures they were 2lts per cylinder.  

@john1950 Many thanks

[Rangie]

The Rolls Royce Diesel Division was eventually bought over by Perkins. We had to get some spare gaskets for a C4NFL via Perkins back 20 years ago.

Alec.

[john1950]

As it happens I was looking at a very early version in this Vickers VR180 at the Chain Bridge Honey Farm near Berwick Upon Tweed the other day it is a very different block to the later engines. It does not appear to have an engine build plate.   

[Mark Ellis]

Being aware of how Land Rover made their 2 1/4 diesel, from a 2 1/4 petrol engine block - is the RR C block the same as the B block, or are they completely different blocks ?

[john1950]

Different engines all together as b series was a side valve engine. Photo from a workshop manual showing 4, 6, and horizontal 8 cylinder engines.

[Mark Ellis]

8 minutes ago, john1950 said:

Different engines all together as b series was a side valve engine. Photo from a workshop manual showing 4, 6, and horizontal 8 cylinder engines.

 

Many thanks, @john1950 

[fv1609]

Covered in EMER POWER S 532 & on

[john1950]

A photo of specifications. 

[john1950]

I had experience many years ago of both C4SFL in an Atlas Copco compressor and C6SFL'S in Vickers Vigor tractors on blade and pulling scrappers. I found them easy to start all weathers and as long as the air flow through the radiator was kept right and the air filters were kept clean they were reliable. Both at 180 bhp and 210 bhp I spent many hours listening to that lovely exhaust note. Oh to go back to those times.  

[Richard Farrant]

1 hour ago, john1950 said:

Different engines all together as b series was a side valve engine. Photo from a workshop manual showing 4, 6, and horizontal 8 cylinder engines.

 

The B Series engines were overhead inlet and side exhaust valves, based on a pre-war car engine.

[Mark Ellis]

1 hour ago, fv1609 said:

Covered in EMER POWER S 532 & on

Thanks @fv1609
I have S520 and S524, for the Stolly website. I'll hunt for a copy of S532

[utt61]

The C-series engines were also extensively used on railway shunting locomotives and many are operation on heritage lines. Sentinel became an RR company and Sentinel locomotives were in later years had C6SFL and C8SFL motors (as well as torque-converters and gearboxes from Self-Change Gears, another RR company, and twin-disc over-centre clutches from Twin Disc Clutches, which was also a RR company at the time.

I know that some of the Super Constructors from Scammell had a Rolls C-series engine (I think a C6 turbocharged but may be wrong) as an alternative the the Leyland-Albion engine favoured by Pickfords, either engine having an SCG box.

The first two diesel-mechanical breakdowns cranes built for BR (sadly the last of which was scrapped last year) were 30-ton capacity cranes built by Cowans Sheldon and Co of Carlisle, and they also had a C-series engine (C4SFL I believe) with a Twin-Disc clutch and SCG torque converter.

There is quite a lot of expertise with these engines in the heritage railway sector.