Sometimes people didn't follow AMOs?

[LarryH57]

This Commer Q2 has a base coat of M.T. Special Shade No.2, (the RAF version of SCC.2) but instead of Brown Dark (MT) 1A or Paint, P.F.U., Black Matt, it  has the camo as Green No. 3 

Why

It doesn't look colourised with the wrong colours, but a dark tilt is also strange.

In some views it looks dark brown and sometimes almost black?

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by LarryH57
spelling

[Rootes75]

Nice to see another photo of the RAF type Q2.

[RAFMT]

You need to be very careful trying to judge shade from period colour film as it is notoriously crap actually picking up what is in front of it. Having said that, depending on when this vehicle was painted, and when the image was taken, there could be any number of reasons it doesn't fit right in. For a start, while the paint for canvas and those for wood/metal were colour matched as closely as possible they will weather differently and if the canvas needs to be replaced they wont necessarily repaint the whole vehicle just to match the newly painted canvas.

To me, that's a Brown, Special, No.2 with Black, Quick Drying, Matt Finish, which has, a: fade slightly; and b: the faded colour shows up funny on the old colour film.

[LarryH57]

Bryan, I appreciate your comments but seeing as the rest of the colours in the photo look normal I wonder if the colour film of the time showed just one colour wrong in a location such as the upper body , that could so happen to be painted in the only colour left in stores or by not so much a rebel but a someone mistaken when told to paint the 'upper surfaces' in a contrasting black or dark brown and opened a tin of Camouflage Green G3 instead?

Edited August 12, 2023 by LarryH57

[RAFMT]

I wouldn't agree that all other colours look normal, but then I think this is a situation where we will have to agree to disagree. To me that upper colour is either Black, or Dark Tarmac.

[79x100]

Is that a slate roof behind ? A huge variation based on reflection between the dark forward elevations and the light green of the more steeply pitched area behind.

[Pete Ashby]

A few general points to consider when viewing any colour print ( note the word print ) from the war time period up  until relatively recently when digital photography took over is as follows:

The various film manufactures ( note the word film here) were experimenting from about the turn of the 20C but the process really gained traction with various new emulsion mixes from the mid 1930's onwards.  Germany leading the way in that respect with Agfa, Kodak in the US were also making strides in that direction with Kodachrome the point being that by the time a very few ( notably more from the German sources ) colour films were being used and processed to make prints both the science and the art used in the developing and printing of the finished image was still a fairly new and developing no pun intended,  technology.   For anyone who would like to know a little more this makes intresting reading regarding Agfa during and after the war .https://www.ifolor.ch/en/inspire/history-photography-part4

Today anybody can alter the tone, shade, contrast or indeed the whole colour balance of any image by pushing a couple of buttons on your phone or computer,  this wasn't the way until relatively recently.    When I was colour printing back in the early 1970's (note the word printing) although we were using a machine to actually develop ( note the word develop) the print we actually dialed the colour filters inside the enlarger using our own perception of the colour balance and something called a Shirley card, look it up if your interested enough. 

So why am I making a destingstion about Film, Printing and Developing ? ?  Each one relies on mixes of chemicals and dye emulsions  to  produce the image at various stages of the process not to mention the colour bias of the human printers brain when the film is exposed to make the print on the photographic paper. 

Simples see ?? .........except it isn't....... it's a whole bunch of chemistry with potential for variations at every step, and just to make matters more complicated the human perception of the primary mix of colours that make green, yellow and blue,  is by no means uniform just look at the band width expended on the discussions of true US  Olive drab  or British G3 for example.

As an aside if you want to gauge the accuracy of a print look for something common place in the image so in the one at the top of thread I used the grass of the lawn and it looks to me like the print has a very strong blue biase to it..... but then it just might be me ??

Pete 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Pete Ashby

[LarryH57]

Peter and Bryan,

Thanks again for your comments. I appreciate you take on the colours as to be honest they are strange.

However as the title suggests people might ignore orders for the the following reasons, typically total ignorance of what was expected, next confusion with previous orders (we always do it that way), "lack of the right paint Sir", well do your best with what you have! And finally experimental reasons but rare at unit level.

[RAFMT]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:25 AM, Pete Ashby said:

As an aside if you want to gauge the accuracy of a print look for something common place in the image so in the one at the top of thread I used the grass of the lawn and it looks to me like the print has a very strong blue biase to it..... but then it just might be me ??

Thank you Pete, I had noticed that about the grass but didn't want to raise it in case it was just me and everyone else piled in with "haven't you seen grass before?"

 

Larry, I'd be the first to agree that orders weren't always followed exactly, it's just that I'm not sure this particular photo illustrates that. (Also, the AMOs regarding colours always have variations of the handy "existing stocks of [colour] will be used up first" line. Covers a multitude of sins. As does "vehicles will not be repainted until..." potentially leading to Khaki Green No 3 with Dark Tarmac No4/Light Green No5 colour scheme to still be in use quite late)

[Pete Ashby]

1 hour ago, RAFMT said:

Thank you Pete, I had noticed that about the grass but didn't want to raise it in case it was just me and everyone else piled in with "haven't you seen grass before?"

Audentes Fortuna luvat   Bryn 

Pete

[RAFMT]

10 hours ago, Pete Ashby said:

Audentes Fortuna luvat   Bryn 

Pete

So said Turnus, and Aeneas killed him!

[Pete Ashby]

21 hours ago, RAFMT said:

So said Turnus, and Aeneas killed him!

Hah ! indeed so,  but at least he went down fighting,  

The point here is this forum is populated by folk almost without exception who are friendly and open to consideration of the alternate view and not afraid to ask questions it's called debate (not argument) and it's how we all learn new stuff from each other, long may it continue. 

Apologies  Larry H57 for hijacking your thread but I thought it was worth saying that we are lucky here to have decent folk, it's not the same on some of the other forums on the web.

Pete