Does anyone know Ptarmigan 98KF80 well actually 04FA36?

[iainmaoileoin]

Ptarmigan FV439  (RR).
Trying to get some history of it.

The 98KF80 was written on the underside of the drivers seat - it now appears to be nothing to do with the Ptarmigan.

Edited December 14, 2021 by iainmaoileoin
updating data

[Richard Farrant]

Are you sure that is the correct number as it is listed on Merlin as a Saxon?

[iainmaoileoin]

No, I am not sure.  

When I took the driver seat out to check the batteries, I came across that 'registration' written on the metal under the seat.  I assumed it was the correct number.  Are the seats interchangeable between these models?  

Let me go and read the number again - the seat is not yet back in situ.

 

What other numbers could I (easily!) get to in order to identify the ptarmigan?

I answered my own question!  Somehow I did not see the reg on my plate.

I have no idea why the 98FK80 is written under the seat!

 

Merlin (did not know about that site) appears to agree with the reg, but none of the dates on merlin appear to tie up with the dates on the plate?

 

Anyway the original question sort of still stands.  Does anybody know anything about the history of 04 FA 36

Edited December 14, 2021 by iainmaoileoin
attaching a photo

[radiomike7]

23 Base Workshop was the huge facility at Wetter in Germany. Rather an appropriate name as it was flooded by the bombing of the Mohne dam. 

FA was 1967/68 and the VRN site shows 04FA36 as an FV432 mk2 with Rarden turret for Berlin. Your plate reads APC and the 9 in the FV number looks like it has been changed, were the FV439s a conversion from FV432s?

Edited December 14, 2021 by radiomike7

[iainmaoileoin]

2 hours ago, radiomike7 said:

23 Base Workshop was the huge facility at Wetter in Germany. ....

...FV432 mk2 with Rarden turret for Berlin.  ...Your plate reads APC and the 9 in the FV number looks like it has been changed, were the FV439s a conversion from FV432s?

So the beasty had two mods/services/whatever in Germany

Can you explain what you mean by Rarden Turret for Berlin? This FV now appears to have radio racks and no Turret.

I have seen some army docs about converting an 432 to a 439.  So you are saying that this machine MAY have started as a 432 then been modded. 

Sorry to repeat data available elsewhere.  Merlin says

17-Oct-1985 1 UKXX

10-Feb-1987 HQ 1 (UK) ARMD DIV 211 SIG SQN

06-Feb-1991 1 UKXX

28-Sep-2004 ABRO BOVINGTON PLANNED REPAIR.

16-Mar-2005 215SSQN

01-Dec-2008 JSCS ASHCHURCH

13-Aug-2009 WITHAM (SPECIALIST VEHICLES) LTD

I cant see how that ties into any of the dates on the plate?  Who would know if not and why not?

[wally dugan]

the data plate only refers to repairs carried out merlin reports show detail of were it was allocated to like 211 signals squadron

[iainmaoileoin]

Ah, the "28-Sep-2004 ABRO BOVINGTON PLANNED REPAIR. " confused me.

Can you help me with what "UKXX" means?

JSCS ASHCHURCH was a store/repair facility in 2008?

 

[REME 245]

4 hours ago, iainmaoileoin said:

 

Can you explain what you mean by Rarden Turret for Berlin? This FV now appears to have radio racks and no Turret.

 

 

 

[Richard Farrant]

I recall in 1985, having to go out to a FV432 to remove the pack to deal with an oil leak. It was probably the first one to be fitted out for Ptamigan as it was at the Hunting Engineering works in Worthing. They had a building full of different military vehicles that were there to use for making the installations for the Ptarmigan system. We noted it had recently had a rebuild and the interior panels to the engine bay were a sealed fit and possibly NBC proof. We had not seen this before. The data plate had it as a FV432 Mk2 SAS COMCEN PTAR3. I believe once they came into service with Ptarmigan they were re-designated as FV439.

[wally dugan]

if l remember rightly  JSCS was joint supply chain services which was based at ASHCHURCH  which also was  a central vehicle  depot and held them for allocation to units sorry l forgot to reply to the other part l have not come across  UK XX before but bovington may have the 419 A history card which     may shed more light on it's history

Edited December 14, 2021 by wally dugan
forgot

[iainmaoileoin]

Wally Dugan: How does one get in touch with Bovington - an email?  A letter? a FoI??  Clues welcome.  thanks.

[wally dugan]

Go to the TANK  MUSEUM web site  for the archives  you will see how to contact them. It's some years since l was in contact with them but always found the staff most helpful

[OzH]

What you have is an armoured Radio Relay (RR) vehicle that would been part of a Secondary Access Node (SAN) along with a Second Access Switch and Message Centre (SAS/MC) (Richard Farrant mentions above FV432 Mk2 SAS COMCEN PTAR3 this was known as a SAS/MC).

These were used in armoured Signals units across BAOR and the UK, I think the RR was already in existence with the predecessor of Ptarmigan, Bruin, so would have been modified from Bruin to Ptarmigan rather than a completely new vehicle which was the case for the SASMC. From memory, the same radio relay equipment was used, but extra modules to provide more secure and digital comms were added

As to the seat, knowing the way the stores worked and the vehicle park, I'd guess the seat may have been accidently swapped with another vehicle? Have you had a good dig around as most of us marked our vehicle registration on anything that could be nicked, regardless of being bolted down or lose! See if you can find 98KF80 or 04FA36 anywhere else?

I took part in the field trials of Ptarmigan, in the SAS/MC, back in the early 80s in Blandford, I'll dig out some photos at some point.

There is an armoured RR outside the Royal Signals museum in Blandford, you could try contacting them? They may be able to help?

Edited December 15, 2021 by OzH

[andym]

As Wally says, the Tank Museum library should have record cards for the vehicle.  My guess is that you'll find that the 2004 base rebuild will show it becoming a different vehicle type.

Andy

[iainmaoileoin]

Contacted them - been busy for a few days - I await a response.

[David Herbert]

The Saxon had a drivers seat that was the same as a FV430 series except that it didn't go up and down. The seat cushion could easily have been swapped. Also note that the army registration number stays with the vehicle whatever it is modified into. This one probably had a number of different roles starting with being a normal FV432 APC when it was new.

There is a small (2 x 3 cm) steel plate welded to the back of the hull onto which is stamped the hull number. This number allowed the factory to keep track of the hulls while they were being built. I have not studied 432s but certainly it is possible to work out the army registration number from the hull number on FV434s.

David

[iainmaoileoin]

27 minutes ago, David Herbert said:

The Saxon had a drivers seat that was the same as a FV430 series except that it didn't go up and down. The seat cushion could easily have been swapped. ....

There is a small (2 x 3 cm) steel plate welded to the back of the hull onto which is stamped the hull number. This number allowed the factory to keep track of the hulls while they were being built. ....

Thanks David, the reg number  is written on the METAL of the seat frame, so I thought I was onto a winner- the seat does go up and down - a mystery.

I was unaware of the hull number, I will go look for that later today.