4x4Founder Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) I have read that a lot of war suprplus FWD Model Bs lost their engines to those "hotrodders" driving Stutz Bearcats. From what I remember, the only real difference in the engines was that the Stutz had a larger bore carburetor and spun up a little faster. Maybe some difference in the mags, though I recall less about that. Too busy this morning to dig out those files. Edited January 6, 2019 by 4x4Founder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharper Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Looking at the specs for the Wisconsin "B" Bore: 4-1/4" Stroke: 5" The bores are offset from the crank centerline by 3/4" towards the exhaust side. Total weight: 475 lbs HP. (ALAM rating) 28.9 hp The ALAM ratings are archaic and its hard to convert to anything meaningful. A graph within the same Wisconsin catalog show approx. 46 hp @ 1,600 rpm In their day they were indeed light, perky engines and when coupled to a minimalist chassis such as the Bearcat you had a real thrilling ride. No doubt lightening the flywheel and playing with the carb and timing would help as well. A twin spark setup was a hot ticket and was well worth the effort. However, like most low rpm engines back then it wasn't about horsepower but torque. I don't have the figures for the model "B" but my 6 cylinder PT generates just shy of 600 ft/lbs at 800 rpm yet is rated at only 104 hp. I am loving watching this project come together! Best regards, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4Founder Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 36 minutes ago, Tharper said: Looking at the specs for the Wisconsin "B" Bore: 4-1/4" Stroke: 5" The bores are offset from the crank centerline by 3/4" towards the exhaust side. Total weight: 475 lbs HP. (ALAM rating) 28.9 hp The ALAM ratings are archaic and its hard to convert to anything meaningful. A graph within the same Wisconsin catalog show approx. 46 hp @ 1,600 rpm In their day they were indeed light, perky engines and when coupled to a minimalist chassis such as the Bearcat you had a real thrilling ride. No doubt lightening the flywheel and playing with the carb and timing would help as well. A twin spark setup was a hot ticket and was well worth the effort. However, like most low rpm engines back then it wasn't about horsepower but torque. I don't have the figures for the model "B" but my 6 cylinder PT generates just shy of 600 ft/lbs at 800 rpm yet is rated at only 104 hp. I am loving watching this project come together! Best regards, Terry What year catalog is that from? I see a couple of different power ratings, one as high as 58 hp @ 1700 (brake) in a Mercer (per Langworth's Mercer history) and one resources lists 60 hp for the Stutz. The Stromberg on the FWD unit had a 1.5-in. bore. I was looking for the materials on the Stutz or Mercer carbs, but I have evidently filed them too well. I hate to quote from my feeble memory but 1.75 inches keeps coming into my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 10 hours ago, 4x4Founder said: I have read that a lot of war suprplus FWD Model Bs lost their engines to those "hotrodders" driving Stutz Bearcats. From what I remember, the only real difference in the engines was that the Stutz had a larger bore carburetor and spun up a little faster. Maybe some difference in the mags, though I recall less about that. Too busy this morning to dig out those files. And they removed the governor!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 went to visit my parts chassis and body today. Removed what was left of the step bracket as my FWD has none. I will fabricate the step with welded steel and not have a casting made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharper Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Quote What year catalog is that from? 1914. That very well could be Brake H.P. as opposed to gross. A period test on a 1915 Stutz chassis listed an average BHP of 47.8 @ 1,235 rpm. Max. Torque was 209 ft/lbs. @ 1,052 RPM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) Rather than fabricate a new step I had the opportunity to borrow an original step . Used as a pattern I had a had a new step cast in bronze (for strength) using an existing the original as pattern. Cylinder jugs installed Pistons in Rod bearings honed, upper water manifold installed, valve shrouds and clips one side done (Thanks to Terry Harper and Tim Gosling), Radiator apart and to be pressure tested soon the tanks were caked solid with mouse nest but the cooling tubes look good. Exhaust manifold,pipe and muffler have been installed. Good news is I have compression and good spark!!! Edited April 30, 2019 by bobs1918 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 nice job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 All looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 That's a hundred years of mouse right there, but they made trucks to last in those days. Got an overall image of it please, just to see progress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4Founder Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 You are making some serious progress. Awesome work on that fine, old FWD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharper Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 Bob, That all looks fantastic! Its great to see the valve shrouds and clips in place and so glad we could help! I am looking forward to sharing the photos with my students. I really love these projects! Best regards, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 FWD update. We have dissasembled the radiator and repaired 2 leaking tubes. One leaking tube was interior and opted to simply plug it. Reaasembled and installed it. Had a new step cast from a pattern taken from another FWD. Used cast bronze for strength. Have nearly completed reassembly of engine components but a bit baffled by the accelerator linkage. I hope to get some pictures from other vehicles in the US and UK for comparison. We have good spark and compression and expect to have it running soon. I am at the three year mark. The body is ready to be straightened in spots and then resandblasted and painted 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 It is looking really nice. Do you know which company made the workshop body for it. There should have been an ordnance plate on it but that may have disappeared. There is a similar bodied FWD out in California. I cannot remember the name of the owner. Have you made contact with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) Thanks a great looking truck that I was not aware of. Name looks like Bill Carver but I cannot be certain. Yes there is data plate on the body but I dont recall the makers name . Somewhere there is a picture of it. It is about 80 miles from here so cannot easily snap a new foto. Edited July 21, 2019 by bobs1918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 A little research found that the owner of this truck Bill Leuer, passed away in 2017. The truck is a Kissel built FWD as is mine. It also has the Machine shop body although I cannot tell which type as there were at least 2 varieties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 That is a shame about Bill. I think he had two more FWD's. Have you had any contact with a Ron Brasil who I think had six Model B's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Well to update my repair attempt on the radiator was unsuccessful. Still leaked badly Pulled it out again and brought it to a professional. I wanted to keep the appearance of the core as original as possible. New spiral fin tubes were quoted at $6500 USD for the tubes only.....Not going to do that so we used the best looking original tubes on the sides and front and put a modern tube and fin design behind it. Had to repaint the shroud as the paint I gave the radiator shop was off in color the last picture is the repainted shroud. Edited September 17, 2019 by bobs1918 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 It looks great Bob. You did the right thing. There are several FWD's with a completely modern core and they just dont look right. You asked about spare U Joint grease cups. Sadly we dont have any. In fact Steve had to make a replacement as they do get lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4Founder Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Bob, I agree. That is a fantastic compromise. YOu are doing that truck right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 Thanks Jim we actually we intended to make the original tubes functional but they were so compromised that we plugged them and they are for appearance only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Great War truck said: It looks great Bob. You did the right thing. There are several FWD's with a completely modern core and they just dont look right. You asked about spare U Joint grease cups. Sadly we dont have any. In fact Steve had to make a replacement as they do get lost. Thanks for checking we are making one as we speak. . 3 out of 4 U joints came apart easily. that left one that was seized and we had to drill out the locking pin. We then redrilled the holes to 5/16 inch. It had been 1/4 inch before the drill out. We replaced the pin with a 5/16th one. As you know plenty of material there to work with . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 well finally got the body sand blasted again. I was never able to prep it last year so I had it redone and then within 48 hours I epoxy primered it and got it painted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 I think I figured out the purpose of the wooden sections on the side of the body. I believe that these prevented the chains from making a lot of chatter when they slam against the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobs1918 Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) Also had time to restore the seat bucket. I Cot off the bottom 4inches all around except for 3 inches in the front on both sides. I I had a replica of the rusted missing metal fabricated with an offset at the top. I used blind countersunk rivets to attach and then did the appropriate body work to hide the repair Edited October 26, 2019 by bobs1918 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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