question Matador questions (first of many)

[pc1959]

Question 1

As it was a nice sunny day I thought i'd have a go at getting the brake foot valve off the Matador, it's leaking through the exhaust when I push the pedal so it needs a refurb.

Unfortunately the unions seem to be seized onto the metal air pipes so when I undo the union I'm twisting the pipe like a bit of barleysugar.

 

 

Has anyone any top tips for unseizing them? Or is it a case of get the hacksaw out and replace the pipes later? Where would I get replacements?

 

Q2

As I couldn't get the brake valve off I turned my attention to the wheel-nuts, the fronts seem to be a gnats bigger then 1-1/4", am I right in thinking this is 3/4 whitworth and that a 38mm socket is a good fit?

The rear nuts are again just a fraction bigger then 1-1/16" is this 5/8 whitworth (28mm)?

 

Q3

Is it usual to have different size wheelnuts front and rear? Are they handed, left hand thread on one side?

 

Paul

Edited August 26, 2013 by pc1959
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[matador]

Q1 - Heat is the answer, warm the female part up and it will free off (mega fine thread - be careful)

 

Q2 - We use a 28mm impact socket on a 3/4 dive 3ft breaker bar with scaffolding tube as required.

 

Q3 - Left hand side of vehicle - left hand thread.

Right hand side - right hand thread.

 

Hope this helps

 

John

[pc1959]

Q1 - Heat is the answer, warm the female part up and it will free off (mega fine thread - be careful)

 

Q2 - We use a 28mm impact socket on a 3/4 dive 3ft breaker bar with scaffolding tube as required.

 

Q3 - Left hand side of vehicle - left hand thread.

Right hand side - right hand thread.

 

Hope this helps

 

John

 

Thanks for those tips, I'll try heating the unions up and more plus-gas. I'll get a couple of impact sockets from eBay.

 

Paul

[pc1959]

I had a go at undoing the brake pipe unions yesterday and had 50% success, one responded to the heat and plusgas treatment and came off with only moderate cursing (because of its position I could only turn it one flat at a time) but the other one refused to unstick from the pipe after a few heat, tap all over with hammer and squirt with plusgas sessions so I had, with regret, to get out the angle grinder.

 

 

 

 

Luckily its the ouput pipe from the valve so it's quite a short length before another union, is there anyone still making this type of steel air-brake pipe?

 

Here's the foot valve as removed, I'll take it to work and stick it in the parts washer, strip it down then try to fix the leaking exhaust valve.

 

Paul

Edited August 31, 2013 by pc1959

[Ed Batchelor]

Save the threaded ends, they are Westinghouse own thread, very fine pitch and no-one has heard of it these days. You should be able to re-make the pipes easily enough it's just the ends which need saving.

[Grasshopper]

Its not usual to find two different wheel nut sizes on a vehicle like this but as long as the threads are the same it is not a problem.

 

Make sure to thoroughly clean or replace the gauze/wire mesh filters in the foot valve as they will impede the air supply to the foot valve.

 

I had a foot valve fail on a Matador I once had while shunting in a yard, good idea to rebuild them on these old timers.

[pc1959]

I made sure to save the end of the pipe I had to chop, the threads in the body of the valve that the pipe elbows screw into are BSP (so there's hope for a temporary fix using BSP fittings and hydraulic hose), they unscrewed really easily as did most of the rest of it. apart from the inlet valve seat and the operating lever and its shaft so its soaking in diesel before a further heat, hammer and breaker bar session.

The strainer is meant to be full of horsehair but I think I'll use something like nylon pot scourer to replace it rather the chase down a horse with some scissors.

[pc1959]

Well the Matador brake foot-valve got rebuilt, painted and fitted and now seems to work perfectly which is very good news.

:-)

Less good is that the air pressure only gets up to 40psi and I have found the next leak down the line.

 

I'm hoping the lack of pressure can be cured by rebuilding the governor and unloader valve.

 

The drivers side front air cylinder or the flexible pipe is blowing air freely (It was getting dark and I was getting fed up by this point so could be either or both).

 

I want to rebuild the whole brake system anyway as shunting it around with no brakes is giving me a nervous disposition.

 

I'd be grateful for any tips on sourcing the big seals for the brake cylinders or the type of hose to get to replace the flexible pipes.

 

 

 

I had decided to replace the rusted 5/8 steel brake pipe with copper air con tubing but it seems wildly expensive so I may think again.

Another thing I need to source are 5/8 olives, the modern ones I have found are thin and angular but I need round fat ones, any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Paul

Edited December 1, 2013 by pc1959

[philb]

The flexible pipes are easy enough to find ( I bought some from ebay but can't remember just who from). The fittings have an interesting feature - shown in the picture if I've got it right. The spiral groove runs from the narrow tip right up to the thickest part - a potential leakage path. I'm not familiar with these things, perhaps someone here can explain the purpose? Maybe the original pipe type had an internal spiral reinforcement that the groove engages with?

 

When you look for pipe, make sure it is for air brakes (nice and flexible) rather than steel braided hydraulic pipe, which I think is too rigid for such short runs and might fail under constant flexing.

 

I'll be interested to see what you find for the cylinder seals. From the drawing they look like inverted sprung lip seals. Anyone know?

 

Phil

[philb]

I forgot to say: Make sure the hose you get is not very old stock. The first lot I bought perished and cracked within a few months of fitting (not dangerously, having sectioned the hose to inspect it, but enough to worry me).

[pc1959]

Thanks for the reassurance that the pipes are available and pictures of the fittings.

I was doing some research on t'internet and found a firm relatively nearby that specialises in air brake bits, They sounded helpful on the phone and I'm going to see if they can crimp the original fittings to new hose (I think the grooves just behind the nut are to take the shoulder of a ferrule).

 

Here is the modern equivalent that they make

 

They are called Airbrake Connections International in Northfleet Kent, I'll report on how I get on.

 

Once I pull the cylinders apart and measure the seals I will start looking for replacements

[pc1959]

The flexible pipes are easy enough to find ( I bought some from ebay but can't remember just who from). The fittings have an interesting feature - shown in the picture if I've got it right. The spiral groove runs from the narrow tip right up to the thickest part - a potential leakage path. I'm not familiar with these things, perhaps someone here can explain the purpose? Maybe the original pipe type had an internal spiral reinforcement that the groove engages with?

Phil

 

Looks like you are right about the reason for the grooves Phil:

 

 

There is a spiral wire reinforcement inside and out on the pipes I took off (Which were completely sh@gged and very brittle)

 

Here's a picture:

 

 

The details in case anyone needs them are:

i/d 1/2 inch

o/d 1 inch

Length of hose only = 18 inches.

Hose crimped to swivel fitting (with the ludicrously fine thread) on both ends with brass ferrule and brass thrust washer between hose ferrule and nut.

 

There is some hose identical to the original on eBay at the moment but I'll have to check out it's age in the light of Phil's coments on cracking.

 

Would fitting modern hose put the rivet counters on a war footing?

 

Paul

Edited December 6, 2013 by pc1959
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