question Land Rover FFR

[TechnicianJack]

Hello,

 

I am new to the forum. I have signed up as I have an interest in Land Rovers. I have a full UK amateur radio licence and some Clansman radio equipment. I would like some information on FFR Land Rovers. (Series 3) I have a small amount of knowledge of non military Land Rovers.

 

Some of the questions I have are:

 

Fuel. I am aware that the non military Land Rovers are designed to be run with leaded petrol, however you could swap the cylinder head for one from a rover car to allow it to be run on unleaded. Is this the same with military Land rovers?

 

If I were to buy one, what should I look for? I know about the usual problems with rusty bulkheads and footwells, as well as the rear crossmembers. Is there someone who can provide a 'buyers guide' with specific points to check?

 

Are there any major differences between non military and military versions apart from the 24V electrical system and the heavy duty chassis?

 

What is the parts availability for them?

 

I'm sure I will think of more questions to ask later!

 

Thanks for your time,

 

Jack.

[fv1609]

Jack I'll just restrict myself to just commenting on the 24v system for charging & ignition.

 

My advice is to avoid a vehicle that has had the electrical system modified. There is a high chance that it will be bodged either in a naive or dangerous fashion or at best done well to a requirement that only the previous owner can understand.

 

Be particularly wary of vehicles still nominally 24v but have a 12v ignition system running from it.

 

Fault finding in the original set up is one thing but once non-original wiring goes in there it is a nightmare to diagnose. Particularly bearing in mind that modifications may have been an attempt overcome or side step an untreated problem.

 

With your RF background unauthorised wiring may not be too much of a challenge, but remember when you come to sell it then this alternative wiring devalues the vehicle in the eyes of a buyer for the above reasons.

 

73 de G4MBS

[Tony B]

The head can be modified to run unleaded, or you can fit a gas system. Lead additives can be used. However, from a practical standpoint, I've run my ex military Landys on unleaded with no real problems. They don't do a lot of milage and are usually babied along.

[wally dugan]

HI JACK

Why not have your own head converted no problem refitting it as to parts they are generally good to get there enough

Dealers of ex military Landrovers about OH by the way wecome

[TechnicianJack]

Thanks for the information so far. The information about the electrical system is interesting. I have seen some vehicles with a 24V electrical system with a regulator to change the 24V to 12 for the ignition system. Is this a modification or a military addition?

 

If I am to buy one of these vehicles, I would be looking for one that is as standard and unmodified as possible.

 

Thanks for the information about the fuel as well.

 

Jack.

[fv1609]

I have seen some vehicles with a 24V electrical system with a regulator to change the 24V to 12 for the ignition system. Is this a modification or a military addition?

 

Jack definitely not a REME modification!

 

I don't understand why people might pay a significant sum for a 24v to 12v converter unit for the ignition circuit. Although it is a better idea than tapping off 12v from one battery!

 

If you use a 24v to 12v converter you are losing out on efficiency, because the inclusion of a ballast resistor is not some dodge just to get a lower voltage because Lucas couldn't design a 24v coil. It is there to change the time constant of the circuit by loading the inductance of the coil with resistance. So that for a given dwell angle in the 24v circuit with ballast resistor, the coil can absorb a higher magnetic charge than a 12v system. At high revs this is significant.

 

It is best to retain the ballast resistor in the filter unit to get the benefit of this time constant improvement. It also avoids introducing an electronic converter into the system that may prove to be less robust for life in a Land Rover rather than a large resistor wound on a chunk of asbestos that was rugged & reliable enough for the Army

[TechnicianJack]

I've been considering this:

 

http://www.milweb.co.uk/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=67948&cat=

[fv1609]

This seemed a bit curious "Not sure if 12 or 24volt version"

[ruxy]

His sales header states :-

 

Ex Military Land Rover 109 FFR

 

------

 

However , I have doubts if it is a FFR.

 

The FFR to him could be his Marconi Sahib TUAAM box on the front wing & his 4 qty. antenna it seems LoL

 

The photograph is not clear at the rear - I see no bumperettes. So it could be a 12 volt CL (civy with a few elect. mods + NATO towing pack).

 

If it is a 24 volt FFR - then you need to know it has not been butchered by way of genny , regulator , shunt & harness, centre of seats twin battery box.

If it has just been modified to 12 volt ignition , depends on how it was done. If you need a DZ dizzy , coil & filter + leads - you don't have to pay out a lot and this may be all it needs. They may be all there with just a cheap (very cheap conversion to 12 volt ign).

 

It could be a military chassis FFR or 12 volt , that has had a civvy replacement rear X member fitted. I would avoid any S3 that needs or has had any heavy chassis repairs - it needs a good check out. It may be one of the few that are solid !

 

If it will soon pass a MOT - why does he not get it done & offer it with a ticket ??

 

There again it is priced reasonable and o.t.o

 

So it depends on - do both tanks hold petrol without leaking ?? (tanks can be expensive)

 

Are the tyres OK , stored well inflated - no side-wall cracks ??

 

Engine run tests - claims OK , so a quick run test to check the gear-box(s) would be good.

 

Does not seem a mil. LR clued up person - you never know , it may have a Fairey OD fitted & he has not worked out it has a extra lever LoL

 

Tilt seems tidy but check the rear window is clearish / not cracked , you should find a few thingies needing work to barter the ££ down a bit.

[TechnicianJack]

I did wonder a few of those things myself, particularly the MOT. There is an email address, so I will have to contact them at some point.

 

I am about an hour and a half drive from there, so I could arrange to go see it. It looks ok from the outside, but the bulkhead/footwells could be rusty.

 

It looks like it sits higher than a standard Lover, so it may have a military chassis and not be a CL?

 

By the looks of the netting in the background, it could have been used as a decoration at a paintball range.

[TooTallMike]

Hi,

 

We have an FFR for sale. It's definitely 24v :cheesy: and genuine ex-mil.

 

It is about the most un-mucked about with you will find and would make a splendid basis for a radio install project.

 

2.25 petrol engine.

 

It has a good chassis and bulkhead, also a fresh MoT and new tyres.

 

Call me on 07747 772838 or PM for more info. or email 'tootallmike at hotmail.com'

 

Located Gatwick area.

 

Regards - Mike

[mike65]

I've been considering this:

 

http://www.milweb.co.uk/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=67948&cat=

 

I think you may find it has been sold.

Looks remarkably like one posted up as just bought by a member of the EMLRA forum.

At least they have almost identical paint jobs lights etc. It was a GS.

 

There are a few clues to not an FFR in the picture. No sign of ever having rear antenna brackets or the cable boxes on front wings.

 

You can see a few FFR traits on my slow resto thread here

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?18120-Land-Rover-Series-3-109-FFR-rolling-restoration

 

As for what to look for chassis and rear x-memeber and bulkhead are as you mentioned the rot areas.

Clive has some vexcellent articles on the ignition and charging side over in Clives Corner on the forum (All charged up and ignition matters)

Very useful and I would have been a bit lost without them as mine was partly butchered.

 

Finding parts does not seem to be a problem with most bits being readily available.

 

However if the truck is missing the battery box for the radio and radio table these can be very difficult to lay your hands on.

 

Oh and my truck runs on unleaded and as far as I am aware is a standard head.

 

Mike

[TechnicianJack]

Thanks for the link to the thread. I have had a read through it.

 

Thanks TooTallMike, I have emailed you.

 

I also emailed the guy who had advertised on Milweb, and he has sold it. After checking, it is the one on the EMLRA forum. (I have signed up there too).

 

Jack.

[TechnicianJack]

I've found another one. 1983 FFR that seems to be in good condition. It's missing it's radio table and has the wrong canvas, but appears to be standard apart from that. The seller says it has some radio equipment still in it. The bulkhead looks good from the photos, as does the rear crossmember. Currently emailing the seller for some more information.