welshbayonetww2 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I want to drop the voltage on my hotchkiss from 24v to 12v. As far as I can see the main stumbling block is the starter motor. I understand the number of dog teeth are different on a 24 volt starter motor, is this correct? If it is how do I get round it?. I intend to go for a 12v alternator and change the distributor. reason for looking at this is to clear the engine bay and make it easier/ cheaper to get parts. Some 24v stuff costs an arm and a leg. Better to change now than wait for big things like the regulator to fail. Anyone done it and have any advice? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMS Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The number of teeth on the M201 starter are the same as MB/GPW. The M38 had a bigger ring gear if i remember correctly. I just fitted a modern denso starter to my Hotchkiss/Willys salad jeep, it was cheaper than a repro original style and a much better quality, provided your not worried about the original look they are a great alternative. i will be getting another made it a couple of weeks if your interested i could get an extra one done at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Why not go the whole hog and change to an electronic ignition? Tht's the best investment I've made in my two Dodge, 1 x6 1 x12 volt. I've fitted Frank Jolley's ones , fit fire up and forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You have still to buy a 12 volt distributer which are not cheap and a coil and leeds commander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbayonetww2 Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 The number of teeth on the M201 starter are the same as MB/GPW. The M38 had a bigger ring gear if i remember correctly. I just fitted a modern denso starter to my Hotchkiss/Willys salad jeep, it was cheaper than a repro original style and a much better quality, provided your not worried about the original look they are a great alternative. i will be getting another made it a couple of weeks if your interested i could get an extra one done at the same time. sounds good. I'm interested, how much would it cost for the starter motor? I've got a distributer and 12v coil and saw a guy selling kits for the alternator change if the bracket holding the alternator to the M201 block is the same as for a GPW. doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You will need to change the bracket if you buy the kit other than that just make your own it isn't that hard when you buy your alternator pick one that is a popular model i.e. from a popular car in the scrap yard that way you will have a plentiful supply of cheap replacements if you are still looking for a 12 volt starter motor I a spare commander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbayonetww2 Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 You will need to change the bracket if you buy the kit other than that just make your own it isn't that hard when you buy your alternator pick one that is a popular model i.e. from a popular car in the scrap yard that way you will have a plentiful supply of cheap replacements if you are still looking for a 12 volt starter motor I a spare commander interested in the starter motor. how much do you want for it? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpu121265 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) I am sorry to jump in to this thread, but i have i think 5 of these starters, which i was told are M38 24V starters. Can any of you M38 or M201 24v owners confirm or otherwise? The tag reads MHJ - 7102 T and they are marked 24V. If you need one, they are no use to me.... Regards Ken Edited March 9, 2013 by kpu121265 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickmow Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 My Hodge Podge was an early 6v but the previous muppet upped it to 12V. Mostly :cool2:. Don't forget Bulbs, like he did. Though not sure it's as big a problem 24 to 12 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert ren Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 Robert U'Ren from willysjeepuk has done a couple of proper 12 volt pre engaged starter mods to a willys and a Hotchkiss ,he didnt like the reduction gear retro fit starters available as they sound harsh and noisy, he decided to get a 24volt pre engaged Hotchkiss m201 starter and sent it of to be re wound internally down to 12 volts It was a terific succsess and starts the jeep quietly and sounds very slick in operation, no more grating on the ring gear once you go for pre enguaged and if you can go for direct drive the quietness of the starter is lovely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert ren Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 I have also a jaguar e type 12 volt starter and modified it as they are cheap and plentiful to buy but this is very involved and you need to be a very good engineer to do it, The gear needs to be cut off the bendix and an old 10 tooth willys jeep gear welded in its place, the support for the end of the shaft has to be cut off so the bell housing can support it and the holes have to be drilled closer together , the very end of the shaft ground down slightly so it will fit the bushing etc etc, I nearly gave up but It is possible to do If you are a good welder and have a very good workshop, probably best to spend the money and have a Hotchkiss m201 starter rewound field windings down to 12 volts, job done, the 24 volt solenoid can be retained and works fine , when I did the jag starter I nearly gave up as its huge and only just fits , the casing needs to be ground down in 2 places for clearance for the mounting bolts and I was fortunate to have a spare bell housing and sandwich plate for constant fitting and checking of free movement, the key thing that caught me out was that I didnt measure the distance from the face of the bell housing bush to the clearance of the flywheel teeth, 1.1/4 inch this is crucial, If the bendix goes to far forward it will wear the back of the bendix against the flywheel and be noisy on cranking but this can be adjusted by fitting a steel collar to restrict how far forward the gear travels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert ren Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 more pictures of jaguar 12volt heavily modified starter fitted on willys jeep, seriousely though If you can find a hotchkiss m201 24 volt starter and have it re wound to 12 volts Its a beautiful upgrade sounds so refined in use and protects the ring gear teeth as its a pre engaged Bendix not a crash bang wallop type like the originals are, see 3rd picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert ren Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 I have some articles on 12 volts start conversions on my website willysjeepuk under mechanical help on jeeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert ren Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 further to my last post the 10 tooth cog ended up having to be changed for a longer one with a narrow neck because the welds on the teeth of the first one i did made the starter noisy as they contacted the flywheeel , to make this hotchkiss longer cog work i also had to shorten the length of the bendix by 1/8th inch and fit the collar to stop the cog going to far forward when cranking , Its far to involved but is possible If your a good engineer and have a lathe, you can see more on my website willysjeepuk If I can find a readily available 12 volt 10 tooth per engaged starter with the solenoid in the right position, this will be very easy to modify and fit , I will keep you all informed If I get any luck finding a more suitable base unit, the original 6volt slam bang starters will destroy your jeeps flywheel teeth eventually and they sound horrible and destructive in use, especially the ones that have been running with a 12 volt battery. However did we get away with such slow cranking in the war, I wonder how many soldiers couldn't start their jeeps quick enough and had to abandon them and run for cover the second picture shows the 1950s upgrade pre engaged Hotchkiss m 201 starter , this is a superb upgrade and so refined, It will protect your ring gear , just the sound of its quiet smooth in action will confirm this , the only one modification you have to do on this Hotchkiss starter is the change of voltage from 24 down to 12 volts , its original 24volt solenoid will work fine on 12 but the internal field windings will have to be changed , Robson and Francis motor rewinds were the people i used to get this done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert ren Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 and yes the hotchkiss m201 starter will fit the ford gpw and the willys ww2 jeep engines , also the cj2a and the Hotchkiss m201, you can wire it to key start, floor start or press button start , a Massey Ferguson 135 12 volt alternator also makes a very affordable and easily available charging unit, you just need to rotate the head flange and modify the bottom rear bracket , put what ever pulley you like on the end to suit the belt or belts you have its easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert uren Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 If anyone can help me with the denso starter model that fits a Hotchkiss or willys mb , I dont mind some slight modification but looking for 12 volt pre engaged direct drive starters to fit these 12 volt converted jeeps, the Hotchkiss pre engaged 24 volt starter is a superb unit but the rewinding of it from 24volts down to 12 volts is a long wait and is expensive , a Hotchkiss with 24 volts or m38 24 volts could be converted with just the sparking system dropped to 12 volts , that way everything else stays at 24 volts but the current going to the newly fitted externally mounted 12 volt ignition coil runs through a voltage dropper and is reduced from 24 to 12 volts, I also fit a china ballast resistor after the voltage dropper to get the current down 3 more volts, a bit more because on any vehicle when a dynamo or alternator is running the combined voltage is even higher than the 24 volts so without the china block ballast resistor fitted a running engine can still push a little to much volts through the dropper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert uren Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 If you have a 6 volt jeep with just the one battery box then a proper 12 volt conversion needs a proper 12 volt pre engaged starter not a re badged 6 volt original style starter, this will be to harsh on the ring gear despite what the suppliers may tell you, pre enguaged 12 volt starter is what you want, a simple 12 volt alternator can be easily mounted on the jeep and pulley size changed to suit the belt thickness, split pulleys can be spaced apart with washers so the thick one piece belts can be used , change the bulbs and disconnect the fuel gauge sender at the tank end (they never work anyway) just look in the top of the tank to see what fuel you have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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