Markheliops Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi all. I’m looking for some advice from those that have an understanding of the J60 as fitted to CVRT Spartan. The Spartan has developed a fault in that it pops and backfires when the engine comes under load. It starts without choke, eventually, and will happily rev without issue, apart from the occasional pop and fart. In fact when stationary it sounds lovely. However, when driven it will start to lose power, cough, splutter and eventually stall. The occasional yellow flames seem to appear from the exhaust pipe. That indicated to me un-burnt fuel getting into the exhaust manifold. I have checked the fuel supply and used a gravity fed supply but this has not cured the issue. I then lifted the engine decks and found petrol to be leaking from the carburettor at the bottom near the two accelerator diaphragm pumps. I decided to change the carburettor. It ran better but still dies under load. Previously the Spartan has had a new coil fitted so I am discounting this as being the cause. From those I have spoken too, it would seem the likely issue could be either spark plugs or the distributor. I have checked the plugs and they seem okay but I am going to check the type and put a new set in just to try. In regard to the distributor, I am going to remove the seat and bulkhead panel to access the distributor. Could anyone add their own thoughts and additionally supply me with: A)The correct spark plug gap and type? B)The correct mixture settings? C)If there is anyway to check the timing with a strobe light or is it the old 12v light bulb and croc clips on the points? Many thanks Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian201 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi, I had same sort of issues with my sabre, athough we had issues with starting too. Fault was hair line crack in the rotor arm, the disy cap was also in poor order. Replaced both items and problem gone. The crack in the rotor arm was not easy to see. We also went around the plug's, timming checks and coil change. Hope this helps Best Regards Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Mark Plugs are RSN12Y's - dont use anything else, they may not work properly. Can't remember the gaps but Im sure there was a thread on this not so long ago... Cheers Timbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Mark, I am not a mechanic and so know little, at least that is my story. Tim is correct on the plug number, that is well documented. I'm surprised it doesn't have electronic ignition fitted. Has the vehicle been run low on fuel recently, has the filter been changed? R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugly Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I cannot add much except that I read in an article by Clive Elliott that should you swapping plugs for replacements , avoid using early pattern RSN13P plugs . There have been some of these for sale recently . Apparantly they were known to have caused engine damage in the J60. Fine to use in the B60, but be wary in the J60. The early type plugs can be identified by " longitudinal serrations " on the top of the plug. The later (better?) plug has diamond knurling. Read this in an article in "Windscreen" magazine winter 2006 . Fantastic reading if you need advice on the ignition side of things . Just thought I would pass this on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I cannot add much except that I read in an article by Clive Elliott that should you swapping plugs for replacements , avoid using early pattern RSN13P plugs . There have been some of these for sale recently . Apparantly they were known to have caused engine damage in the J60. Fine to use in the B60, but be wary in the J60. The early type plugs can be identified by " longitudinal serrations " on the top of the plug. The later (better?) plug has diamond knurling. Read this in an article in "Windscreen" magazine winter 2006 . Fantastic reading if you need advice on the ignition side of things . Just thought I would pass this on . Read it here http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?8606-Ignition-Matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 A)The correct spark plug gap and type? B)The correct mixture settings? C)If there is anyway to check the timing with a strobe light or is it the old 12v light bulb and croc clips on the points? Many thanks Markheliops Plugs RSN12Y's as stated.. No points Mark, see attached which may be of help to you. J60 Electronic Ignition.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Thanks Lee. Very interesting - is the electronic system a mod as I have looked up the ignition system in a CVRT handbook and it states there are two sets of points. One static and one adjustable set. I haven't looked as yet due to having to remove the drivers seat and bulkhead panel to get to the dizzy. Thanks to everyone elses input. I shall try a change of plugs first and then if the fault still exists, shall have a closer look at the dizzy. Does anyone have any thoughts on the yellow flames out of the exhaust? Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Thanks Lee. Very interesting - is the electronic system a mod Yes, see page 15 of http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/IGNITIONMATTERS.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 It sounds to me like crap fuel or bad plugs. Change the plugs, if it's still horrible try fresh fuel straight to the pump from a can. Those fuel tanks are a nightmare, they fill up with sand etc and are a horrible job to clean. Plus, being so big, you can never keep them full enough and they end up half full of water due to condensation. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 It sounds to me like crap fuel or bad plugs. Change the plugs, if it's still horrible try fresh fuel straight to the pump from a can. Those fuel tanks are a nightmare, they fill up with sand etc and are a horrible job to clean. Plus, being so big, you can never keep them full enough and they end up half full of water due to condensation. Chris Hi Chris. Thanks mate. From the start I have suspected crap fuel. I have checked the filters and they were spotless. I shall change the plugs and then try again. If no better, strip the dizzy, check the timing and another fuel supply. I was going to try 1.5 turns out with the mixture srcews unless anyone knows differently? Cheers Lee - my printer is doing overtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 1.5 turns is a good starting point, the ones I've done seemed to run well at 1 1/4 turns when warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Mark As you have already said, i think the yellow flames are a sign of unburnt fuel. I had a similar problem on my Spartan, and have changed the filter and put fresh fuel in but as it is being painted at the moment dont know whether this has worked. Once you have the decks off the removal of the drivers seat and firewall is actually a pretty quick job, although it will be fiddly if the captive nuts in the firewall have gone walkabout! Also as a last resort don't assume that just because the coil is new that means it is working correctly.. Cheers Timbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It sounds to me like crap fuel or bad plugs. Change the plugs, if it's still horrible try fresh fuel straight to the pump from a can. Those fuel tanks are a nightmare, they fill up with sand etc and are a horrible job to clean. Plus, being so big, you can never keep them full enough and they end up half full of water due to condensation. Chris The fuel filler filler on Spartan is just a recess in the roof. Driven off-road (where else to drive a CVR(T)), dust and leaves accumulate. Remove the filler cap, Istr a filter to catch the big stuff but you just know that some will get through. I used to find pine needles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi all. Spartan is sorted: I narrowed the fault down to crap fuel. I changed the plugs to Champion R12's and removed the ones that damage the J60. I then connected a jerry can from the fuel supply pipe and adjusted the mixture and idle - it ran like a dream. The fuel pump had already been changed as had the fuel filter before I got my hands on it. The fault had been present for at least a couple of years and some changing of components had taken place. As everything else had been done - dodgy fuel was the only thing left. I drained a glass of fuel from the tank and it was a very odd smelling, dark yellow colour - not good. Unfortunately the Spartan does not have a drain facility so I will just have to siphon it out of the tank and then give it a damn good clean out. Thanks for everyone's input. Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Forte do a very useful additive for engines that have had old fuel. http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=42/Advanced_Formula_Gas_Treatment I've used all be it in smaller tank sizes, definite improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david052 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi all. Spartan is sorted: I narrowed the fault down to crap fuel. I changed the plugs to Champion R12's and removed the ones that damage the J60. I then connected a jerry can from the fuel supply pipe and adjusted the mixture and idle - it ran like a dream. Markheliops Just out of curiosity, where did you break into the fuel system to put a jerrycan supply, and how? I want to run my Sultan on a jerrycan system as well, but having just refurbished the whole fuel line network I am reluctant to start hacking it about. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just out of curiosity, where did you break into the fuel system to put a jerrycan supply, and how? I want to run my Sultan on a jerrycan system as well, but having just refurbished the whole fuel line network I am reluctant to start hacking it about. Thanks I connected the alternative fuel line to the fuel line that runs up the bulkhead into the engine compartment. Just unbolt the connector and bobs your uncle. Don't forget to either disconnect the fuel pump electrical connections or pull the fuel pump fuse - or you may have a flammable issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Forte do a very useful additive for engines that have had old fuel. http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=42/Advanced_Formula_Gas_Treatment I've used all be it in smaller tank sizes, definite improvement. I'll have a look - thanks Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I changed the plugs to Champion R12's and removed the ones that damage the J60. Do you mean RSN12Y's which are the correct plugs?? Champion R12's are iridium plugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Sorry to deviate the thread a bit but in case you have not seen me posting this elsewhere, we have gone through the saga of Spartan fuel tanks ourselves a few years ago and fitted this tank and made a sub floor which really opens up the vehicle and improves how the vehicle runs, until you puke a rod through the oil pan . . . "There were no new holes made or anything welded on in this process". All old items saved, completely reversible. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Mark, you can drain the fuel tank- there is a change-over valve at the front of the fuel tank which you need to use, then remove the belly plate beneath the engine and you should find there is a drain pipe there. Pull the cap off the end (if fitted), switch on the ignition and the fuel should pump out (into the container or hose of your choice). A bit slow, but not too messy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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