trevor pitman Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Need some general guidance please. A friend is restoring a vehicle which served during WW 2. Despite alot of effort over the past 3 years we have not been able to locate/discover any civilian registration details. It is possible that the vehicle was never civilian registered, but this seems unlikely. To make the truck more user friendly the restorer has removed the large petrol engine and fitted a more modern diesel. In an ideal world my friend would like a reg to be allocated in keeping with the trucks age (1942-1944). He has been informed fitting a modern diesel may mean a reg in keeping with the engines age, which will be alot younger. Apart from the engine the truck is all original, apart from the rust being removed and new metal put in.... Chassis numbers and SM numbers are on the truck. This business of age related registration linked to the age of the engine is a new one on me..........Is it correct? Any pointers gratefully received Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Not heard of that before! :-D And exactly how would the owner or DVLA be able to date a replacement engine anyway? Suggest the owner just registers the vehicle and gets an age related plate. There is no provision for submitting the build date of an engine - just the type of fuel and serial number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 This business of age related registration linked to the age of the engine is a new one on me..........Is it correct?Any pointers gratefully received Trevor, I read about this recently, in the FBHVC news page in the MVT magazine, see here ; http://fbhvc.co.uk/2011/08/10/newsletter-no-4-august-2011/ scroll down to "unregistered vehicle inspections". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Thanks for that Richard - I did a quick scan of the piece in latest MVT mag, but managed to miss the right hand column containing this info completely out!! :nut: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philb Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's a similar story regarding age related plates for specials (kit cars in modern speak - even if they're not from a kit) most of the power train and running gear must come from the same age/type of vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 As has been pointed out elsewhere, the easiest way to do this is get the vehicle registered with the original engine in place then swap engines later ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 As has been pointed out elsewhere, the easiest way to do this is get the vehicle registered with the original engine in place then swap engines later ... Sadly the original engine is now in the Netherlands with a collector......hindsight is a wonderful thing. However we shall persevere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 If all else fails, couldn't you settle for a Q plate then get a classic registration? I wonder how an engine can be dated. However, there is allowance on classics for use of a modern replacement by the same manufacturer if the old part is not repairable, available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor pitman Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 If all else fails, couldn't you settle for a Q plate then get a classic registration? I wonder how an engine can be dated. However, there is allowance on classics for use of a modern replacement by the same manufacturer if the old part is not repairable, available. My understanding of the Q plate is once it is on/allocated you can not take it off/re-register Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 This is annoying, but you'll need to find an engine of the correct type (doesn't have to be the original engine itself), get it inspected and registered, then re-fit the replacement engine. It's the only route I'm afraid. Looking forward to enduring a similar process myself...- MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) This, frankly, seems a bit of a nonsense. It also seems open to over-interpretation from jobsworths at owners' clubs. The way I read the DVLA guidance, if I put a vehicle together out of lots of bits of separate vehicles, all over 25 years old and all relatively original, I get an age related plate consistent with the age of the youngest component. If I have a complete vehicle as it came from the factory, with original chassis number etc and known history, but with one younger non-original component, I have to have a Q plate. Surely that can't be right? What if I buy, say, a QL that was converted to limespreading in the '50s, say with a Perkins P4? What of the many historic commercials around which started life with bodies that have long since disappeared and are now being restored with newly built flatbeds? Given that the guidance is in the same section as kit cars and specials, and given DVLA's stated intention to prevent vehicle crime and ringing, is this really intended to catch restorations of relatively complete original vehicles or is it aimed at bitzers and being over-interpreted? Edited December 4, 2011 by Sean N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 This, frankly, seems a bit of a nonsense. It also seems open to over-interpretation from jobsworths at owners' clubs. ....... Nicely put :-D. But I can see that the vintage marque clubs have to be very careful - they have been given a significant responsibility by the Authorities to verify vehicle age, and without this facility it may become far more difficult to register some of these older vehicles. I prefer to view the situation as being of our own collective doing - we do seem to have a knack of presenting ourselves with overcooked legislation which at times is in conflict with itself and often impossible to comply with without causing these sort of ridiculous situations. And you're absolutely right - often made worse by over-zealous interpretation! A bit like shooting ourselves in the foot. So what do we do? We just get on with it in our own quirky British way and devise all manner of crafty 'fixes and workarounds' (sorry Bernard :-D) along the lines that Tootallmike has suggested. As for the QL/P4 thing - the P4 could be seen to be a generally similar period engine, so would surely be elligible for an age related plate, if the P4 was around in wartime fthen ine, if not then '50s era registration it is. I for one am very glad this matter has come to light right now - more later :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 As for the QL/P4 thing - the P4 could be seen to be a generally similar period engine, so would surely be elligible for an age related plate, if the P4 was around in wartime fthen ine, if not then '50s era registration it is. Interesting that the QL / Perkins example came up. I know the following is not related to the UK but there could be similarities. A friend in Australia restored a Bedford QL, as its engine was beyond repair he decided to fit a Perkins 6.354, (introduced from 1960's on). When it came to registering, he was not able to get Historic registration due to the engine being too modern, unless there had been a legitimate and documented upgrade in the past, where these engines were fitted. The only possibility here was the fact that Perkins produced P6 engines for replacing 28hp Bedford engines back in the early 1950's but no written evidence could be found. Cannot recollect how he got on, but the only other way was to go on normal registration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Has the system changed? I thought it was done on a points basis, ie so many points for each of the original major components and a minimum points total to get the age related plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croc Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 First thing, what is the vehicle? It is possible that has never been civilian registered if it has been used (as a breakdown, for example) on trade plates. Q plates can be re-registered if dating evidence can be found. I had no problem doing this with my Scammell (with a 680 in it), it was treated as a new registration rather than a change. You will need to get the age related bit right if you want to take advantage of the pre 1960 testing exemption. If the engine is the only change to the vehicle it should not cause a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Had no problem with my Scammell Explorer 6 years ago. The Meadows petrol was already out, and I put together and fitted the Eagle diesel that came with it. I obtained the build sheets from the Scammell records, and I think got a covering letter from a club official at IMPS. No inspection, and had the log book in days! I also have a 1951 Explorer run on trade plates in the past which has a Leyland 680 power plus fitted, which I hope to get together soon. Hopefully I can go the same route with that too, unless the people in power prefer fossil fuels burned 3 times as fast and want a petrol re-fitted? Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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