restoration Series 3 Lightweight 24v FFR Winterised

[airportable]

Are you going down the 'full on' Unitary Cage affair with your radios Andy?

 

Regards Thanks for the link for parts.

54HG12 (FFR) has the unitary radio station with 353,352 and a 321. Can post pics. if you have not seen my set up.

The restoration, not sure what a UN Landi would have had regards radio. Prob. the same as Mil.?

After Newbury picked up all the extra bits for fitting 352 in a GS. But must admit my slant is towards a 350 on the wing, being as I have never seen this set up at a show. Just thought it would add intrest.

Andy.

[touchwood 2a]

Wayne,

I just wanted to lighten the topic.

On my Toustie I had no problems spliting engine and gearbox, it has been restored, but a lot of parts 24v specifications is missing :-( unlike your original state.

 

My toustie holidays are shortened to one day> (busy at work)

I only complete seperating the rear axle and brakes.

 

 

photo of wings thanks Wayne

 

Jarda

[Rover8FFR]

Wayne,

I just wanted to lighten the topic.

On my Toustie I had no problems spliting engine and gearbox, it has been restored, but a lot of parts 24v specifications is missing :-( unlike your original state.

 

My toustie holidays are shortened to one day> (busy at work)

I only complete seperating the rear axle and brakes.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43629[/ATTACH]

photo of wings thanks Wayne

 

Jarda

 

Fantasic Jarda....Glad they arrived safely

[Rover8FFR]

I haven't had chance to get near the Lighty this bank holiday due to work stuff.

 

I have decided to remove the studs around the bell housing so ease the seperation as I know she can wiggle from side to side and the gap widens, but she wont come away at a sensible angle.

 

It is frustrating when it is so close but just seems to bind. I had managed to blast some penetrating spray in there incase it is the clutch / drive shaft etc.

 

It seemed easier when I last tried last weekend. Maybe after 2 weeks the penetrating spray may have worked itself in. I hope to have a better update this coming weekend, whilst the wife is watching the wedding.......

 

Fingers crossed :nut:

[Rover8FFR]

Well I have removed a large proportion of studs, but not all. Removed the gear lever and inspection plate. Blasted with penertrating oil and left. then returned and wiggled at the engine hoist and still they won't come apart.

 

Looking inside at the clutch there is definate corrossion and I am guessing that the drive shaft from the gearbox is held fast on the end of the crank?

 

My only options are to remove the gearbox and see if that comes away easier or hack up the gearbox bellhousing and then use the Irish hammer. I do not know the worthiness of the gearbox, given its time outdoors unprotected and therefore suspect that it is only suitable for internal salvage.

 

From the feedback everyone appears to have had an easier passage so now know the outcome and assault under the cry of 'swift and bold' seem to ring in my ears.

 

Any other ideas anyone as I may be missing a trick here?

 

Cheers :blush:

Edited May 1, 2011 by Rover8FFR
Port goggles

[ruxy]

It could be that you have a late (metricated) flywheel housing with 10mm studs that somebody has not reamed out the gearbox mating flange 3/8" holes - and rivet it up , giving 0.018" interference on every stud - they do..

[Rover8FFR]

FT all I know is that it has been an absolute ##### to try and seperate both.

 

Last night I decided ' Bother ' do a full separation and forget about the bulkhead as it is 'Brown Bread'.

 

So I peeled away the bulkhead and exposed the Engine, GearB and TransferB and all as a 0ener!

 

The limitations of my garage and time at night meant that I could be only sensitive to noise, so I parked up knowing that the next phase would see engine and all extracted.

 

I am glad that ,the bulkhead is knackered otherwise the butchery would have been more patheology like!

[Rover8FFR]

I went off piste slightly with another thread due to experiencing hardships with the engine and box removal.

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?24306-Sharing-the-knowledge-on-restoration-servicing-and-rebuilds&p=261198#post261198

 

All future updates on progress will be reverted back on here, albeit other thread has identified my woes were shared by other forum members!

 

Cheers

Edited May 11, 2011 by Rover8FFR
typo

[Rover8FFR]

Popped into the garage tonight to do something else and before too long I had picked up the cut-off tool and put on some gloves.

 

I was amazed whilst sort of tinkering, just how much I had done. No photos but list of conquests tonight.

 

Remove rear lights and base plate bezels from rear tub.

Isolate main umbilicle cables along chassis rails and bulkhead and drape into rear tub.

Remove Larkspur co-axial cables from chassis rails and route back to rear tub.

Disconnect starter switch and battery cables.

Remove large amounts of winterised fabric and contact adhesive from rear tub/ wheelarches.

Isolate main wiring loom and pull through chassis to remove.

 

Didn't plan on doing so much whilst tinkering, but all positive work to allow if needs be the rear tub to be lifted away with some cabling attached. Plan to sit it on blocks/ tressles to allow clear access to work on and re-spray etc etc as part of rebuild.

 

Bulkhead can be completely removed now to allow parts to be stripped off to suit new/ replacement bulkhead.

 

Rear axle removal for refurb and repair.

 

Then hack up the old rotten chassis to make way for the new one and then as the Haynes manual says. Reassembly is the reversal of disassembly.....LoL. Hopefully some photos over the course of the weekend as I know how everyone likes pictures.

 

I did however come to the conclusion that the bitumastic paint that was slapped everywhere was a completely stupid idea and makes life really difficult.

 

The front wings inside as smothered in the stuff and removal is going to be time consuming to say the least! :nut:

[Rover8FFR]

Little bit more done tonight. Pics I forgot to take the camera / phone with me.

 

Slowly but surely making space to get at the chassis to chop up and clear out to make way for new chassis and build up.

 

Tasks achieved this evening.

 

 

1. Removed Flywheel and crankcase bellhousing from block. This will allow engine to fit to stand for better progress.
   
2. Moved gearbox and transfer box elsewhere to save space.
   
3. Removed handbrake and mechanism / support brackets from chassis.
   

During this I queried a few things in my mind regarding new replacement parts that got me thinking.

 

With regard to handbrake mechanism, road springs, shock absorbers, spring shackle plates, brakes, brake drums and the like. Are they all the same part numbers as the regular series 3 88inch or are they unique. I am sure that I have cross referenced some part numbers and they are the same, but just had one of those thoughts.

 

Also as I am salvaging parts a lot are coated in the thick black bitumastic slop. Appart from heat guns and loads of sweat and grief, isn't there a solvent of substance that you can immerse some parts in and the stuff disolves.....Like gun wash, paint brush cleaner etc?

 

Sorry if this has been done to death already regarding 70's military land rovers.

 

Cheers

[Rover8FFR]

I have removed this coupling from the lightweight and sender valve and wondered if it was a standard S3 item or specific to a LTWT.

[RattlesnakeBob]

as someone suggested earlier your 'separating' problem is very likely to be down to the clutch plate and or thrust bearing being proper seized on the shaft.....grunt sweat and cussing is the usual answer to that one...

regards your steering relay ....they are relatively cheap but just try freeing your first ...mite save a few quid....remove 2 of the small bolts ..one from the front and one from the back and stand it up firmly in a vice in a corner somewhere and squirt it full of diesel or a petrol/oil mixture through the 'front' hole until it bubbles up out of the back one.... ..leave for a few days whilst continually attempting to turn it it backwards and forwards.......it'll be proper stiff but persevere......keep squirting your release mixture in as you do so which wil flush all the muck and crud out ....if its gonna work.... after a few days you should notice its getting easier to turn....eventually when its proper free ...re fill with lube oil....just keep squirting till you see nice clean oil coming out instead of a mucky mix.....bit of a hassle I know but its the kind of little job you can do every time you wander into the workshop whilst yer 'busy' with everything else....

PS: and if you decide to strip the relay fer christ sake be careful of the viscious spring lurking within !!!

[ruxy]

I have removed this coupling from the lightweight and sender valve and wondered if it was a standard S3 item or specific to a LTWT.

 

============

 

There are a few variations of the Lightweight PDWA , in fact if you are into rivet counting on the subject I once posted a few ID photographs on the Ex-MLRA , ISTR on the BLOG of the build up belonging norcoatomique . There are thread differences IIRC early is in fact metric but the later is UNF.. The much later single end cap type IIRC uses the ISO bubble flare on pipe-work but the very early / early does not..

 

There are two early types (but you are not likely to see the very early version) , they have hex. threaded ends at both ends (easier to push the spool out) with 5 pipe ports and mounted with the switch on top of the valve. Secured to bracket with 2 bolts.

The very early tpe was used up to about 1973. Valve Part No. 64066420 Switch 74660145

--------

The later type is from about 1975/76 is mounted with the switch on the same bracket but IIRC using only 1 bolt and the switch is mounted on the bottom-side. This has only one hex. machined & threaded end-cap (I would have to check - there may in fact be two versions of this valve).

THIS SEEMS TO BE YOUR PDWA.

 

So it is probably valve 64068853 and switch 64677381.

 

This valve has 4 ports because there is a brass "T" splitter fitting on the inside of the front (No.2 Cross-member) - that splits fluid to near & offside front brakes..

 

In a way the PDWA is biggest puzzle on a Lightweight to correctly identify.

 

However - if you have a Spitfire Mk. 1V / 1500 , TR6 , Maxi, or even a Marina - you can rob one off it..

 

The switch is probably a makers part No. (not a Rover no.) Girling ?

 

seems dated at 4-4-1975 ,, or possibly not.

Edited June 17, 2011 by ruxy
sspelling

[Rover8FFR]

FT the sender was on the top and the valve was fixed to the bracket via a single bolt.

 

I guess the answer to the question of it not being the same as a civi S3 is yes, but other BL cars used it as a standard part as you suggest.

 

For the avoidance of doubt I will take some closer / clearer pics to ensure the right advice / part is known.

 

Thanks

[Rover8FFR]

as someone suggested earlier your 'separating' problem is very likely to be down to the clutch plate and or thrust bearing being proper seized on the shaft.....grunt sweat and cussing is the usual answer to that one...

regards your steering relay ....they are relatively cheap but just try freeing your first ...mite save a few quid....remove 2 of the small bolts ..one from the front and one from the back and stand it up firmly in a vice in a corner somewhere and squirt it full of diesel or a petrol/oil mixture through the 'front' hole until it bubbles up out of the back one.... ..leave for a few days whilst continually attempting to turn it it backwards and forwards.......it'll be proper stiff but persevere......keep squirting your release mixture in as you do so which wil flush all the muck and crud out ....if its gonna work.... after a few days you should notice its getting easier to turn....eventually when its proper free ...re fill with lube oil....just keep squirting till you see nice clean oil coming out instead of a mucky mix.....bit of a hassle I know but its the kind of little job you can do every time you wander into the workshop whilst yer 'busy' with everything else....

PS: and if you decide to strip the relay fer christ sake be careful of the viscious spring lurking within !!!

 

Hey just noticed you are a local FoD. I live on the outskirts of Mitcheldean, but higher up on the edge of the forest.

 

The seizing of the steering relay was the whole thing seized into the front crossmember as the norm. Appreciate the feedback and advice though.

 

I know what you mean about the inner spring though.......When they ley go.....THEY LEY GO...........:wow::wow::wow:

[ruxy]

FT the sender was on the top and the valve was fixed to the bracket via a single bolt.

 

I guess the answer to the question of it not being the same as a civi S3 is yes, but other BL cars used it as a standard part as you suggest.

 

For the avoidance of doubt I will take some closer / clearer pics to ensure the right advice / part is known.

 

Thanks

 

========================

 

Take an Asprin or two first,,

 

http://forum.emlra.org/viewtopic.php?t=5382&highlight=pdwa+valve

[Rover8FFR]

FT the image in the EMLRA thread shows the item that matches mine.

 

You were right about the medication though.....What a mine field!!

 

You obtained a new part, but I suspect they are as rare as hens teeth?

 

The part on mine that appears damaged is the sender unit. Do you know if these are still available??

[ruxy]

Valves are available but they always have been expensive. Switches for 4 port differ from 5 port (thread size IIRC) the seak kit also is different.

 

The switch for the 4 port is 64677381 (I suspect this is Lucas Girling part |No.

 

LV6MT9/2530-99-822-6377

 

--------

 

Seal kit is SP2615

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

The spool never moves unless there is fluid loss on one line, in theory the seal should never wear but they can deteriorate with age so best to renew seals if you re-pipe. Fluid can get line to line , and leak line to line - I know somebody who lost all brakes like this.. Also (I forget if early or late valve) one is noted for fluid getting into the part of the barrel where the centering ball is - then it is possible for the fluid to escape via. the switch threads (Unless the switch is loose) - I suppose this must be a very slow loss. Some people do away with the valve - I prefer to keep it, when bleeding - if you press the pedal too hard - then you can displace the spool, just release a nipple on the other line & a quick tap on the brake pedal gets it in centre again to take the brake failure lamp off..

Edited June 19, 2011 by ruxy
sspelling

[Rover8FFR]

FT

 

I came across this on a TVR Vixen web page, where they say they are difficult to obtain etc??????

 

http://www.zen11896.zen.co.uk/vixen/parts/pdwa.html

 

As a side. If this is linked to the Brake Warning switch on the dash then am I right in assuming it is the same as a S3 88/ 109 GS??????

 

Saying that though it is likley that they are useless also and that condition from a scrap / broken vehicle cannot be guaranteed!

 

If this is removed then the solution would be to revert to a Civi S3 set up I guess!

[Rover8FFR]

http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/14123/NRC4880-BRAKE-SYSTEM-PDWA-VALVE.html?search=pdwa&page=1

[ruxy]

FT

 

I came across this on a TVR Vixen web page, where they say they are difficult to obtain etc??????

 

http://www.zen11896.zen.co.uk/vixen/parts/pdwa.html

 

As a side. If this is linked to the Brake Warning switch on the dash then am I right in assuming it is the same as a S3 88/ 109 GS??????

 

Saying that though it is likley that they are useless also and that condition from a scrap / broken vehicle cannot be guaranteed!

 

If this is removed then the solution would be to revert to a Civi S3 set up I guess!

 

===========================

 

What you must remember is that all the way through the 1970's (until mid 1980) the civvy 88" and mil. CL 88" only had single line brakes. You could have dual line on a civvy BUT it had to be ordered and paid for from the "Optional Extras".

 

Civilian 88" & mil. CL 88" after mid. 1980 had dual brakes as standard fitment. At this time-line the Lightweight and civvy 88" / CL 88" moved from 10" dia. front brakes to 11" dia front brakes. A 1 into 2 splitter was mounted on the front of the chassis to serve near & offside front brakes , from this point on the PDWA went from 5 port to 4 port.

------

 

With a early Lightweight having 10" dia. front brakes it is better to work in the main with the civilian "Optional Parts Catalogue" RTC 9842CB March 1981, if you have good mil. L'wt parts Catalogues - then you can also cross-reference as a double check.

The Lightweight uses a manual "Brake Test" button / Warning indicator in the centre of the instrument panel.

 

------

 

With later Lightweights having "rationalized" axles having the 11" dia. drum brakes , then you use the dual line braking diagrams & parts numbers from such as RTC 9841CE June 1988 civvy parts catalogue.

 

At this time there was a change in the bulkhead main harness for such as rear fog guard lamps. You lost the vacuum servo low vacuum switch and manual brake "Test" switch but gained automatic ignition start up brake check via. a additional FV relay..

 

Well - that is the basic bones of it - you have to take care to identify what you have , from shape of PDWA mounting bracket early or late , and if secured with one bolt or two , and switch to top or bottom.

 

It is a pity you did not photograph the shuttle valve & pipe runs before dismantling - or did you ??

Edited June 20, 2011 by ruxy
speling

[Rover8FFR]

Didint take pic, but defo 2 pipe connections top and 2 bottom. Switch on top and one bolt connection to bracket. Of that I am 100% sure.

 

Just checked my LTWT parts documents and tha PDWA isn't shown anywhere. I have a copy of additional equipment catalogue so will look at that later tonight. See what that throws up .

 

Cheers

[Rover8FFR]

This is the arrangement I have in LTWT

[ruxy]

Yes Wayne. What Optional Catalogue have you there ? Rover No. & date ?

 

It is a bit later (part numbers - some are s/s later) than in RTC 9842CB dated March 1981. Probably I need to update my book as the 11" front brakes & later braking is from Mid-1980..

[Rover8FFR]

Ruxy

 

Its LR Optional Equip Parts Cat. Part No RTC 9009B dated September 1975