Rover8FFR Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) I have decided to start a thread for my own restoration, albeit it is not progressing rapidly. The main reason for this is essentially due to the condition of the Landy as it is ex Commando and definately did some skinny dipping in the sea. Hence the chassis and bulkhead are beyond repair and salvage. I have obtained a replacement chassis so now the focus is to start the strip to commence with a rebulit / rolling chassis with components refurbished / overhauled before refitting. Photos of original condition Poor Condition of Bulkhead View from Engine Bay Looking Sorry for Herself Part Strip removing panels and clear out Part Strip showing Winterised rad blind Rear Battery Compartments. One each side for each Battery Support for rad blind formed from throttle pedal linkage rivetted to dumb irons Rear Generator Panel Rear Tub with Shunt Panel Vehicle moved into garage for main strip down. Many seized bolts and fixings uncovered, resulting in lots of heat, grinding etc. Front shackle bolts seized solid on one side only and usual steering relay seizure found. Attempts to remove engine resulted in engine and bellhousing mated together and not seperating. I would ask if anyone knows if a gasket or sealant would have been used to keep water out? The studs are fitted to the flywheel housing but still seems unwilling / too close a fit to allow engine to come cleanly away! I would appreciate what other forum members have experienced when trying to remove an engine on a lightweight. Front Axle with springs removed Engine reluctant to be dislodged Starting surgery on rotten chassis to expose steering relay. It was also my birthday today and my wife let me spend a huge portion of today in the garage to get stuck in. I need more birthdays this year. She even washed her own car today so I could do this. She is an angel and I don't deserve her! Well that's what she tells me. :thumbsup: Edited March 27, 2011 by Rover8FFR Quote
martin parke Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 Best of luck with the restoration Wayne ,,,plenty to do there Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 Best of luck with the restoration Wayne ,,,plenty to do there You're not wrong Martin. The best of it is that I actually achieved quite a bit today and got a huge sense of satisfaction from it. Once the engine comes out a lot more progress will be made. I did get some birthday money today so may invest in a needle gun for this one and also for the Piggy. It's a bit frustrating that some bolts are alright to undo when they are cleaned up and some penetrating oil soaks in. But others might as well be welded in! Also the obligatory 1970's bitumen coating on the chassis and everything near it slows you right dddooooowwwwwwnnnnnnn! Thanks for encouragement though Quote
sirhc Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 I did get some birthday money today so may invest in a needle gun for this one and also for the Piggy. Wayne, Don't put the needle gun anywhere near any thin sheet metal, it will be fine for the armour on the Pig but it will make a mess of the Lightweight body work! Chris Quote
fv1609 Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 A brave & noble thing you are doing Wayne. I have found heat, in measured intensities, from a gas torch is a good workshop companion for intransigent fixings of various kinds. Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 Wayne, Don't put the needle gun anywhere near any thin sheet metal, it will be fine for the armour on the Pig but it will make a mess of the Lightweight body work! Chris Chris thanks I should have been clearer I was thinking more about the heavy metal items such as axles etc and should have said a twisted wire attachment for the grinder also. Appreciate the advice in any case. Birmabright would work well under the gas torch and hammer scenario but not a needle gun as you say. Cheers Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 27, 2011 Author Posted March 27, 2011 A brave & noble thing you are doing Wayne. I have found heat, in measured intensities, from a gas torch is a good workshop companion for intransigent fixings of various kinds. Clive the blowtorch has been very useful at times, but sometimes u know when you are beat and the angle grinder must take to the stage. The fact that this vehicled used to belong to someone of high regard makes more more committed to get her back on her feet. The winterised kit is the challange. However that can be works in progress. She will be operational as a 24v FFR first complete with Unitary cage etc. After all that is how she started life before conversion to winterised. It is ironic though that in certain parts the chassis is like sawdust, but in other tough as old boots once the paint is removed and the grinder gets into sound metal. All good fun though! Hope the postie called Quote
airportable Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Hi Wayne. Will follow your restoration with great intrest. Have you had a look at the pics. of my old chassis!! Good luck with it. Seems I was lucky, only had to cut one fixing. I had no prob. splitting engine from bell housing, no sign of any gasket/compound. Andy. Quote
mike65 Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Some task you have there, good luck. WRT to engine/gearbox issue, is it possibly the good old iron block/alloy box ad water (plus salt) lets react and bond ourselves together scenario? Is there a plugged drain in the bottom of the bellhousing? This is often don with offroaders that do regular and long term wading, clutches don't seem to work to well when lubricated with water. THey also seal all joints etc with silicone. They may have done this and used something other than silicone, bearing in mind its age. We used to use builders mastic on VW Beetles floor pans ro heat exchanges/cill. Worked a treat and waqs cheaper than the proper seal. Mike Quote
touchwood 2a Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Wayne, You did a great job.:cool2: I had a no problem with seperating the engine and bellhousing. Everything was from oil and splitting went smoothly. Good luck. Jarda Quote
airportable Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Some task you have there, good luck. We used to use builders mastic on VW Beetles floor pans ro heat exchanges/cill. Worked a treat and waqs cheaper than the proper seal. Mike I was advised to use oil based mastic on my Landi. vent panel etc. instead of silicon. After six or so years it's still 'soft' and bleed's oil a little on a hot day. Told it wont trap moisture like silicon when set and starting to 'break' away from from paintwork. Just a thought.Andy. Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 29, 2011 Author Posted March 29, 2011 Some updates following a productive day yesterday on a days restoration holiday. The surgery on the chassis to extract the steering relay intact involved some careful prising back and cutting with the smaller cut-off tool that allows some precison instead of a full on grinder. The engine and gearbox bellhousing are pried apart but with plenty of movement side to side and wiggling they are still connected. The Series 3 gearbox is connected via studs and it is the angle of the studs trying to come clear that is the issue as the block and gearbox are not in true alignment so I guess that's the issue. Blo##dy frustrating to say the least. I did find an odd sponge item behind the old seat base /rear tub that has the marking SV 2009 / DXL 1974? Sponge disc discovered? Partial exposure of steering relay tube in front cross member Front sleeve for relay opened up to show debris remaining from careful flushing / scraping out Steering relay removed intact. Yahoo Front cross-member and dumb irons cut out to allow greater access to engine bay. Bellhousing just showing gap from block to show start of seperation?? Gap visible to other side with chisel inserted for prying / leverage. Driver side fuel tank removed. Passenger side fuel tank removed. Rear tub disconnected from chassis and raised on blocks to allow access to electrics and relocated battery cables to rear battery boxes behind wheels. Close up of uplifted rear tub. Drivers side battery box removed and main loom disconnected from lighting. Battery box from higher angle showing battery cables etc. End of battery cables with glands and adapted bolts to allow unscrewing and slipping through cables. Side view of battery box showing previous repair panels. View of both battery boxes. (Heavily Corroded). Sat on one of the fuel tanks. The removal of the engine still appears a challenge now that the joint between the block and bellhousing has been broken?! ( I mat actually decide to remove engine and gearbox in one, albeit best to remove bulkhead to do that, which is getting ever closer. Anyone have an idea if the position of the engine hoist would make life easier if it were straight on???? More to follow.:whentitsdone: Quote
fv1609 Posted March 29, 2011 Posted March 29, 2011 Well its amazing what a bit of warm weather can do to make the workshop more inviting! Don't know about the sponge I'm afraid. Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 29, 2011 Author Posted March 29, 2011 Well its amazing what a bit of warm weather can do to make the workshop more inviting! Don't know about the sponge I'm afraid. Didn't invite the engine to come out though mate! Quite a bit done, but progress slow due to seized or heavily corroded fixings. But progress nonetheless :cool2: Quote
Masseyboy89 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Watching with interest Wayne, great work, keep the pictures coming! Simon. Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 30, 2011 Author Posted March 30, 2011 Watching with interest Wayne, great work, keep the pictures coming! Simon. Simon, thank you. I will endeavour to keep the momentum going, subject to work and family. Each time I do something I hope to update the photos to show progress. Good feedback and interest from other forum members is always a good stimulant to progress more with the thread / restoration. Also having a replacement chassis standing by is a prompt . The other is the additional vehicles that need varying amounts of work to complete / restore, so need to be methodical in my approach. I do like military vehicles in desert colours, but as this lightweight is a winterised version that answers that fetish :red:. Probably have to stay unless someone advises me that a winterised land rover would have been in a hot climate livery??????? Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Hi Wayne. Will follow your restoration with great intrest. Have you had a look at the pics. of my old chassis!! Good luck with it. Seems I was lucky, only had to cut one fixing. I had no prob. splitting engine from bell housing, no sign of any gasket/compound.Andy. Andy did you put a block under the gearbox where it sits over the crossmember, to prevent it from dropping slightly. I think the angle of dangle is working against me and the studs are not coming out truly horizontal so it is snaring / snagging. I guess the fact that the engine needs to be raised slightly is creating more of an issue regarding sliding back. Is it possible that the engine hoist position is working against me and that if it is head on I will have greater success. Thoughts anyone? Cheers Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 I was advised to use oil based mastic on my Landi. vent panel etc. instead of silicon. After six or so years it's still 'soft' and bleed's oil a little on a hot day. Told it wont trap moisture like silicon when set and starting to 'break' away from from paintwork. Just a thought.Andy. I guess that is similar to the non setting sealant used on caravan joints. I have 2 tubes of that around that may come in handy. Similar to stuff used where seat base meets rear tub and for sealing floor panels. Albeit the neoprene strip I suggested on another thread may work better on the floor panels me thinks. Cheers Andy Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Don't know about the sponge I'm afraid. Tutt Tutt Mr Elliott :nono::nono::nono:. We expect more from you it must be said. If it is any comfort I have no idea either, but did wonder if it was part of the mortar cases that were in the rear of the vehicle when collected :help: Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Wayne,You did a great job.:cool2: I had a no problem with seperating the engine and bellhousing. Everything was from oil and splitting went smoothly. Good luck. Jarda Jarda thanks for the irony! .....I had no problems....:cry::banghead::angry. The series 2a has a different detail I think to the series 3, so would be a little easier. Tell me did you have a Toastie holiday on Friday and Saturday??? Wheres your blog/ thread update pics :-( Did you place a block under the gearbox between crossmember number 2 and bellhousing to stop the gearbox flexing up and down. That is what I will try next. Glad your wings arrived safely Quote
utt61 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Wayne, good work, and great to see one as far gone as yours getting restored rather than broken. Re. your gearbox/engine splitting problems, some thoughts based on my experiences with Landrovers over the last 3 or 4 decades:- 1) Sometimes the studs will be seized into the bellhousing with the aluminium corrosion effect, but I don't think this is happening in your case as you have some movement. If it is the case, unscrewing the studs can help. 2) alignment is important, as others have said support the gearbox and pull the engine straight out forwards in line with the input shaft. Violent wiggling sometimes helps. 3) I wonder if your clutch driven plate has seized on the splines of the input shaft - quite possible if yours has been dunked in salt water, especially if it's been in long enough to allow the bellhousing to fill (or without the wading plug fitted). If this is the case, then you don't really have any alternative to the brute force and ignorance approach, and use force to get them apart. However, if you remove the gear lever and its mounting bracket you may be able to apply Plusgas or a similar release agent onto the splines through the hole in the bellhousing (or at least see what is going on inside). 4) It is also possible that the spigot bearing has seized on the input shaft and is now stuck on the driven plate, but this generally wouldn't put up much resistance. I think it is unlikely to be the probelm in this case. 5) I wouldn't at this stage take the engine and gearbox out as a single unit, since if it is a clutch plate seizure problem it will be much harder to split them out of the chassis - at least at the moment the gearbox is firmly anchored and you can pull the engine hard and lever it etc without the box following. 6) I have never known any kind of sealant used on the belhousing joint and never seen any instruction to use it. The joint doesn't have to be 100% watertight, and there would be no point using sealant. Of course that doesn't mean that someone hasn't done so in the past, just that they shouldn't have done so! Seeing how far apart you've got them, though, my bet would be that the clutch driven plate has seized on the input shaft splines. Good luck, and keep up the good work! Quote
Rover8FFR Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Utt61 that is very helpful indeed and would answer somewhat to the cussing I have done so far at the old girl! I agree with the sealant issue as I can get a lever in there and spread the gap open. I noticed some read sealant on the edge of the bell housing and assumed that was the culprit. When I took the starter motor out it was heavily corroded with surface rust and signs of water beading / rust staining. I will remove the gear lever and linkage and spray some penetrating fluid in there / shine a torch and see what I uncover. I decided to restore this one for 2 reasons really. 1. I haven't seen many winterised lightweights knocking about. and 2. I have become friends with the family and close friends of the chap that owned this and never got around to doing this before he passed away. I will let everyone reading know how I get on following the great advice and support. Upwards and Onwards :cool2: Quote
Rover8FFR Posted April 4, 2011 Author Posted April 4, 2011 Latest parts items arrived in the post today. Having removed the petrol tanks in an earlier update I today received 2 new mounting fixings for the rear support outrigger, for when they are re-instated in the new chassis. Purchased of eBay for a few quid. Quote
airportable Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Its great when all the new bits and pieces come together, but you have reminded me I need all the mountings and two tanks.:embarrassed: Quote
Rover8FFR Posted April 4, 2011 Author Posted April 4, 2011 Its great when all the new bits and pieces come together, but you have reminded me I need all the mountings and two tanks.:embarrassed: The fixings were actually from Blanchards via their eBay shop. Are you going down the 'full on' Unitary Cage affair with your radios Andy? Regards Quote
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