Eau de Nil and RAF Blue grey on a !)!, Why?

[antarmike]

 

Having been doing some welding on rear cross member of a 1977 built, 1983 into service RAF/USAF Rapier TRT. I find on the rear cross member firstly, black then a shade of Olive, then a coat of Eau de Nil, Then a coat of what looks like RAF Blue Grey, then it is back to a shade of Olive. What is the explanation?

 

Vehicle supplied as Chassis cab to Marshall's for Ambulance body, but it was built after 6 years stored at Ashchurch as a GS, then converted again to a winch equipped 12v Rapier TRT, financed by the USAF.

 

Based at West Raynham and protecting Lakenheath and Mildenhall.

Edited January 30, 2011 by antarmike

[antarmike]

Can a mod change the thread title for me, should read 101 not !)! (caps lock!) Ta

[ruxy]

Original chassis paint at best would have just been de-greased. OD would probably not be a good base for a class finish of RAF Blue/Grey. If it was a gloss dress coat of RAF Blue/Grey - then it would probably need a grey undercoat , alternative would be a obliterating ground coat of something suitable he had to hand such as Eau de Nil (that he had probably tested on a earlier job). Undercoat colours are funny , grey covers most OK for most top-coats. Yellow finishing often needs a brown undercoat for best results..

[antarmike]

Original chassis paint at best would have just been de-greased. OD would probably not be a good base for a class finish of RAF Blue/Grey. If it was a gloss dress coat of RAF Blue/Grey - then it would probably need a grey undercoat , alternative would be a obliterating ground coat of something suitable he had to hand such as Eau de Nil (that he had probably tested on a earlier job). Undercoat colours are funny , grey covers most OK for most top-coats. Yellow finishing often needs a brown undercoat for best results..

 

But surely far too late for RAF Blue Grey, but why Blue Grey, These 101's were paid for by the USAF, and never wore RAF roundel, although they carried AM reg and had RAF crew.

 

Putting RAF blue gray on a vehicle whose purchase and running costs were met by the Americans seems most odd, particularly when done at some time after 1983.

Edited January 30, 2011 by antarmike

[ruxy]

From what I have observed of RAF Land Rovers - they did not use service men to re-paint them. They always seemed to get a good spray finish. I know until recent years they employed their own civilian painters for aircraft re-finish, AFAIK they use the paint makers staff or contractors for the new compliant paints. It is probably just grey used as a sealing coat, the original could be / suspected infra-red reflective and the last coat NATO Green that was not IRR. Either colours could be a isolator used over an air-dried synthetic or anything , I have used a paint called OB Primer , a very universal (2 pack) cure all (not a isolator) made by a firm called Upoxy Research Ltd , use it over plastic , bare metals and directly takes finishes inc. celle.

[ted angus]

From what I have observed of RAF Land Rovers - they did not use service men to re-paint them. They always seemed to get a good spray finish. I know until recent years they employed their own civilian painters for aircraft re-finish, AFAIK they use the paint makers staff or contractors for the new compliant paints. It is probably just grey used as a sealing coat, the original could be / suspected infra-red reflective and the last coat NATO Green that was not IRR. Either colours could be a isolator used over an air-dried synthetic or anything , I have used a paint called OB Primer , a very universal (2 pack) cure all (not a isolator) made by a firm called Upoxy Research Ltd , use it over plastic , bare metals and directly takes finishes inc. celle.

 

Through most of my 39 years service I was in the same part of the empire as the painters. For the last 14 I had the paintshops under my command. I can tell you that until 2006 the RAF had a huge trade of Painters & Finishers. On some units a small proportion were crown civil servants. In 1977 when this Landie was built we had been using IRR Matt green for 3 years, I would expect that its contract would have called for this finish ; It would have been a single item Alkyd finish. Its undercoat would have been dark Admiralty grey and its primer would have been that currently in use for each type of substrate on the vehicle i.e. ferrous or non-ferrous. On some smaller stations which didn't have a paintshop a larger unit would have been formally tasked to give "parenting" in that particular field. exceptionally the task may have been contracted out or there may have been an arrangement in place with the nearest Army base workshop. However, all contract requirements would have been strictly in accordance with current regs and in some instances even contractors would have received the required material and technical paperwork via the RAF's higher technical authority for surface finishing

 

Re markings on RAF Regt vehicles on USAF bases were required to comply with all RAF marking regs; They operated just like any other sqn other than the the good old USA gave HMG a bundle of dollars to fund them.

Re compliance: I used to sign off the useage returns to the Station health and safety office that could be called for by SEPA (Scottish Enviro Protection Agency). IRR was exempt as was the new finishes which we first used for gulf war 2 .

 

For the record; Many non operational stations had all their support services(including surface finishing) contractorised many years ago. In 2006 the task was taken over on operational units by SERCO. Part of the contract was to employ all the remaining RAF painters until the end of theri engagement; At which point that person's post would be filled by a civillian; The serviceman normally got first shout on the post.

 

There was a practise where users tarted up there own vehicles and slapped on IRR green & black for purely b*llsh*t reasons, but once their Sqn COs and WOs were educated into the health hazards of IRR and that improper application nullifies its operational effectiveness the practise was got rid of; but it did take many years.

 

re the colours; in 77 IRR green was the finish for Strike Command and RAFG in other commands it was still RAF Blue /Grey. For tactical units black could be applied if called for by the vehicle's role. Even the USAF asigned Rapier sqns were under operational control of Strike Command.

On the cross member could the blue grey actually be Dk AD grey ? and we were at that time using some primers on both ferrous & non ferrous that were similar in finish to eau de nil. ???

 

TED

Edited January 31, 2011 by ted angus

[antarmike]

if Eau de nil colour is actually a primer, would it be normal to put a primer onto IRR? I thought Primers were for bare metal.

I have several in service photograhs of RAf Regiment rapier vehicles and none have an RAF Roundel.

Edited January 31, 2011 by antarmike

[chevpol]

Thats a nice piccy Mike, any more?

 

Mark

[antarmike]

Thats a nice piccy Mike, any more?

 

Mark

RAF Rapier unit, Falklands Victory Parade, London

[ted angus]

if Eau de nil colour is actually a primer, would it be normal to put a primer onto IRR? I thought Primers were for bare metal.

I have several in service photograhs of RAf Regiment rapier vehicles and none have an RAF Roundel.

 

 

Hi Mike as you say primer to bare substrate but if a shot blasting not availible a partial rub back- possibly leaving old layers then blast on some primer . We will never know. We looked after 27 sqn here at leuchars for 5 years befotre they moved to Englandshire, Their vehicles always left us in standard RAF markings . They then fitted the blue /red Tac plates themselves although we used to make them up for them in workshops. But like you piccies of them displaying the roundal are like rocking horse poo ! Mind how often do yopu see Regt lads with there cap badge over the left ear instead of the left eye.

The official colour for the Rapier launcher was Dk green & Dk Earth but again most piccies show green and black.

TTFN TED

[airportable]

Eau-De-Nil. Just for intrest, in my shed.

Thought it was for front doors and letter boxes.

[ruxy]

I used to use Dufay Titaine original IIR NATO and have the brushing & spray data sheets somewhere. This firm was taken over by PRC-Desoto and everything has changed. In theory the original IRR was supposed to be sprayed on a prepared surface (at least the first top-coat).

 

Now - you would probably use something like this :-

 

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:mwj96yW1JHkJ:www.lindberg-lund.com/files/Tekniske%2520datablad/PR-219-TD.pdf+desoto+def+stan&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjH4nzjrFhYuBI7Pplk_hhHUVPgqLv6YNLyVKQrcB6SnZE6O0pceRLl64-7aD-VnPDd8aL2sHArIZoha2qarWkVXr-iejmX_233SVb-C0BkJEV4P-AdOn88E2kCOQKyiXZ83X7M&sig=AHIEtbSvzTY6dhS5qop7xiYosgdctMY3qQ

 

Note the colour - Olive Yellow , not too far away from Eau-De-Ni

[antarmike]

Hi Mike as you say primer to bare substrate but if a shot blasting not availible a partial rub back- possibly leaving old layers then blast on some primer . We will never know. We looked after 27 sqn here at leuchars for 5 years befotre they moved to Englandshire, Their vehicles always left us in standard RAF markings . They then fitted the blue /red Tac plates themselves although we used to make them up for them in workshops. But like you piccies of them displaying the roundal are like rocking horse poo ! Mind how often do yopu see Regt lads with there cap badge over the left ear instead of the left eye.

The official colour for the Rapier launcher was Dk green & Dk Earth but again most piccies show green and black.

TTFN TED

The problem with the grey being an undercoat for the green, is that there is a layer of red oxide between the Two of them!

[ruxy]

That red-oxide can sometimes shear away and look pink/red or grey/pink - that is in fact the IRR NATO Green..

Often the Army did not do a proper prep , sometimes I don't think they correctly de-greased new DBG because I have fully stripped NATO Green off with a steam cleaner..