FoolsHumor Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Gents, Can you help with a bit of insight please. My recently acquired Saladin was very nicely restored by a precious owner several years ago but had always been kept in a heated building. For this first winter here in Indiana I cannot give it the same warm accommodations, although it is indoors. It has surprised me by being completely leak free, with not so much as a damp spot. We recently had some very cold weather, where for several days it was 8 degrees F ( -13C) and checking it daily, was still dry even after the weather warmed up to more normal temps. Then we had a single day where the high was 63F (17C) and that evening I had puddles at 4 of the 6 wheel stations. The trails were down the inside of the backing plates and tires. It appears to be hydraulic fluid so I am assuming the wheel cylinders are to blame. Is this a common situation with this type of vehicle? I can only theorize the metal wheel cylinder bores contracted in the cold weather and then when they expanded in the warmer temps the rubber cups did not make the trip with them. I am inclined to start her up and see if they will pump up and reseal, but thought I should check here with those who know before I made any large errors in judgment. Thanks for any help you can give. Regards, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Bob, Saladin disc brakes are known for leaking. Andy (who will no doubt be along at some point) changes at least some of the seals each year. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Sub zero temperatures do the same to many of our vehicles, hence my desire for more heated storage. Wheel cylinder rebuilds a common occurence on a yearly basis because of it. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi Rob, Expect to replace at least two seals every year. They seem to last between 6 months and three years in my experience. I’ve replaced the cylinders but no difference. Banisters have seals. Don’t use NOS ones. I find that the first time I run my Saladin after winter, all is OK. But within 24 hours two or more will be leaking. Over the years you will become very proficient in replacing them Now takes me 20 minutes per cylinder and half an hour to bleed the system. I am trying a difference type of seal on two of the cylinders made from polypropylene(??? Spellin). So far so good, but they have only been on for two years. If they last another 3 I will have the other 10 cylinder seals made from the same stuff. Unfortunately they wont reseal themselves, just get worse. The Saracen and Ferret brake cylinders however don’t seem to have the same problems. Have fun.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoolsHumor Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Gents, I believe what you are telling me, but I am still puzzled as to why? I have a Ferret that leaks a bit of coolant when temps drop just below freezing, but stops when it is just above freezing. Do you have any theories as to why the Saladin brakes leak only when they warm back up? Of for that matter why the design is so prone to killing the seals so frequently? Does this also mean I should wait until warmer weather is here to stay before I replace them? I have pulled my parts manual and the only part I can find listed as a seal is on Plate G19 reference number 19 seal,taper LV6MT9/2530-99-836-6033 Is this the part that is failing and the number I need to order from Banisters? Anything else I need to know? Thanks again for all the help. Regards, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugly Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Gents, Can you help with a bit of insight please. My recently acquired Saladin was very nicely restored by a precious owner several years ago but had always been kept in a heated building. For this first winter here in Indiana I cannot give it the same warm accommodations, although it is indoors. It has surprised me by being completely leak free, with not so much as a damp spot. We recently had some very cold weather, where for several days it was 8 degrees F ( -13C) and checking it daily, was still dry even after the weather warmed up to more normal temps. Then we had a single day where the high was 63F (17C) and that evening I had puddles at 4 of the 6 wheel stations. The trails were down the inside of the backing plates and tires. It appears to be hydraulic fluid so I am assuming the wheel cylinders are to blame. Is this a common situation with this type of vehicle? I can only theorize the metal wheel cylinder bores contracted in the cold weather and then when they expanded in the warmer temps the rubber cups did not make the trip with them. I am inclined to start her up and see if they will pump up and reseal, but thought I should check here with those who know before I made any large errors in judgment. Thanks for any help you can give. Regards, Bob Hi Bob Mine doesn't leak at all ...... Ever....... Dry as a bone all year round ...... doesn't matter if its hot or cold ............. consistently dry.......:nut: (Mainly because it hasn't seen any fluid for years!!.) Hope you are well Bob and having fun . As you can see I have just started work....... Edited January 14, 2011 by Fugly addidng info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoolsHumor Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 I am sure you are honest and correct about it not leaking. But one of the oddities about this sport that afflicts us, is that with diligence and hard work I am sure you will have it leaking again soon. Regards, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobin Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I bought a Saraen Mk6 from the army which had been standing for some time. I spent about five weeks pumping steering oil in and watching it pour out of the bottom, it got to the stage where I considered putting a bucket under there and re using it. I drove it maybe ten times over that period for average journeys of 10 miles and at the end of that time it just stopped leaking. I was prepping to replace all the seals but with hindsight it was just dry seals, use it before you change anything, it will probably fix itself as the seals expand. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoolsHumor Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hi Tobin, I have seen what you describe on the Ferret if it sits for too long, but this seems to be brake related and I do not know what type of seals are involved. I need to buy some from Bannister's so I can at least see how they are made and have them on hand if the do not reseal. Thanks for the reply. Regards, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hi Bob, I also can't understand this tendency for the Saladin's disc brakes to leak. Does it get that cold in your area too? In one of the early posts on the Saracen rebuild thread, even the Saladin disc brakes themselves were considered unsatisfactory. Puzzling?! And you don't want to re-engineer it either. Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saladin1969 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have had the same problem for some time now. I just replenish the accumulators and hydraulic fluid as needed. I wouldn't know where to find replacement parts. I am new to this sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have had the same problem for some time now. I just replenish the accumulators and hydraulic fluid as needed. I wouldn't know where to find replacement parts. I am new to this sort of thing. Most people tend to use Banisters for this sort of thing (as already mentioned) who you will find easily enough if you google them. Friendly, efficient and knowledgable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoolsHumor Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 After my initial post I did buy seals from Banisters and yes , as always, he was quite helpful and good to deal with. I have not yet installed the new seals, mostly due to time constraints, but I also wanted to see if it would leak as bad this winter after some regular use last summer. My vehicle had sat for some time and some seals will improve with use. Unfortunately I now have a small but fresh puddle after some recent cold weather. After receiving my new seals and seeing how they are made, I have less hope for resealing. The brake "cups" that are common here are made so the fluid pressure forces the thin lip out against the bore and helps maintain a tight fit. The Saladin seals are not cups, but are made similar to a quad ring (square o-ring) and have a tapered O.D. I assume the sealing takes place from a compression fit in the bore. My theory on why they leak after cold weather, when warm weather returns, is the bore contracts, the seal is stiff and does not expand when the bore warms and is again a bit larger. I am happy to have some holes shot in all this as I have very little real experience and I am here for the knowledge of those who do. I have attached a photo of the seals and you can note the taper on the O.D. if you compare the end widths on both sides. Andy, did your new material seals work? Polypropylene I believe you said. Thanks again for the help. Regards, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Andy, did your new material seals work? Polypropylene I believe you said. Thanks again for the help. Regards, Bob I do have some new seals fitted which I had made to try and overcome the problem of the leeking. At the end of November when Saladin went into hibenation, they were not leeking. It will be April before she gets her first run of the year though, so I am unable to say how sucsesfull they are. What I have found is, that once they start to weep they don't stop. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I do have some new seals fitted which I had made to try and overcome the problem of the leeking. At the end of November when Saladin went into hibenation, they were not leeking. It will be April before she gets her first run of the year though, so I am unable to say how sucsesfull they are. What I have found is, that once they start to weep they don't stop. Andy Andy I would be interested to know if you have seen any improvement from your new seals..? Cheers Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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