question Looking for CCKW AC decal (lid and body)

[deadline]

I am looking for the AC filter decals (or even just clear pics of them, the TMs only clearly show the body decal, the lid decal is not legible).

 

If you have a pic of the decals, or know someone who is repo'ing them, please post or PM.

[TooTallMike]

I believe people like Jeepparts or Dallas Autos do these types of decals.

 

- MG

[deadline]

They have the FRAM decals, or the 50's AC decals for passenger cars.

 

The AC oil breather decal (it was easy enough to find) is not what I am looking for.... my search is for the lid and body decal for the oil filters. I can make out the oil filter body decal.. the TMs show it.. but there is only one picture of the lid decal, its in the 43 TM9-801 in the ignition section (go figure).

 

Its almost like there are no factory oil filters left on CCKWs.. I've looked at hundreds of CCKW pictures (and dozens in person) and none seem to have the original oil filter... they are either painted over, or supply stock (plain black, no decals).

 

Its like the Delco 4H battery... there are post war '4H' batteries, but they are not the same as the wartime production ones.

[G506]

Deadline,

I have a feeling Jim Carter truck parts keep these decals

[deadline]

Nope.. already checked.

 

They have the AC logo, but its not even close to the Military Senior filter decals.

 

I'm heading to Carlisle to the Army Heritage Museum for some research.. when I get back I'll post scans from the 43 TM9-801 that show the body decal, and the only semi legible part of the text I can find for the top.

 

If you want, you can read about my oil filter research here:

 

http://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=478

 

Note that the Military Senior filter is the precursor to the AC S-2 filter, as the Military Junior (as used on g503 and similar vehicles ) is the precursor to the AC S-6 filter. None of the military decals made it to the civilian models... in fact, oil filters were OPTIONAL ACCESSORIES (dealer installed, no less) for 46-50-ish GM civilian cars!

 

I learned a ton researching these filters.. and have just three remaining questions: What does the oil filter cover decal say. What colors are the decals. What color GRAY was used on the factory filters.

[G506]

The shade of grey I used on the Chevrolet's filter is very light indeed. I was lucky enough to get a near exact match as my filter housing was one of the very few parts of the truck not covered in rust, presumably a faulty seal caused it to get a good protective coating of oil. The paint was in aerosol form, found in a home improvement store, not sure if that product is available in the US, will check on the manufacturer when I get home. Hopefully this image of my oil filter has uploaded ok

 

 

[woa2]

The shade of grey I used on the Chevrolet's filter is very light indeed. I was lucky enough to get a near exact match as my filter housing was one of the very few parts of the truck not covered in rust, presumably a faulty seal caused it to get a good protective coating of oil. The paint was in aerosol form, found in a home improvement store, not sure if that product is available in the US, will check on the manufacturer when I get home. Hopefully this image of my oil filter has uploaded ok

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]39019[/ATTACH]

 

That oil filter is identical to the one on my wartime British Ford vehicles, and the one in my WOT2 has the markings on it and it's in the original kharki finish. Sometime over Christmas I will photo it and you can see the decals.

Also, anyone know where I can get a filter from? It's a Fram C30.

[Richard Farrant]

Also, anyone know where I can get a filter from? It's a Fram C30.

 

Hi Robert,

 

That would be the same filter as a WOT6 then. About 3 years ago, I got a new old stock filter element from Howard at Collectors Car Parts, near Heathrow.

[Degsy]

Have you tried the CCKW forum, I seem to remember a thread on this subject quite a while ago and I think somebody was offering decals.

[deadline]

They had the FRAM decals. Those are surprisingly easy to find... all the dealers have them.

 

As posted above the Military Senior filters were designed specifically for the Military. The majority of Civvy cars didn't have oil filters and you never filtered the oil, you simply changed it.

 

It would be nice to get a complete decal sheet together, and I have located 3 of the six decals (still need the oil pan decal, and the two oil filter ones). Ross Prince in AU has the oil breather, and the two rocker cover decals.

 

I am not sure if the oil bath air filter had a decal. My guess is yes (going by the all the other air filters on MVs) but both of the ail filters I have (cast iron and die cast) have none.

 

I spent all morning at the Army Heritage Research Center in Carlisle looking up Quartermaster Company T/O&E info (found a few nuggets of info, nothing related specifically to the CCKW) but will get some TM scans up as soon as I can.

[deadline]

The shade of grey I used on the Chevrolet's filter is very light indeed. I was lucky enough to get a near exact match as my filter housing was one of the very few parts of the truck not covered in rust, presumably a faulty seal caused it to get a good protective coating of oil. The paint was in aerosol form, found in a home improvement store, not sure if that product is available in the US, will check on the manufacturer when I get home. Hopefully this image of my oil filter has uploaded ok

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]39019[/ATTACH]

 

I did find what one supplier is calling:

 

1929-1962 Chevy engine Gray but it looks very dark... like Ford Gray dark. I painted my GPW engine with Plasticote high temp engine enamel Gray.. I want to say the number was like 514 or 506.. I still have a can. I may just go with that.

 

They also list a GMC Six cylinder Olive for 39-48. Yep, GMC olive.

 

http://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=477

[deadline]

 

 

Here is a side by size (somewhat difficult to read) comparison from a June, 1943 Popular Mechanics AC Delco oil filter ad. Note the civvy filter in the lower left has the simple AC logo. The decal on the military filters is clearly a different size, and contains references to part numbers used to service the filter unit.

[deadline]

Evidently there are TWO separate decals used on the oil filter body ( I am calling them early and late ).

 

I have pics of them here:

 

http://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=488

 

Also I deciphered the text on the 'late' decal.

 

Still looking for a pic or an actual oil filter with the label on it. Nothing in the TMs are legible.

[G506]

Hi Deadline,

sorry for the late reply.

I bought an oil filter decal, but after looking more closely I hadn't noticed that it is clearly different to what it should be, it is what you refer to as the civilian style, certainly different to the early style round military decal. Have you had any luck sourcing the early military style? If not, maybe you or I can see if I can get a run made locally

[G506]

I did find what one supplier is calling:

 

1929-1962 Chevy engine Gray but it looks very dark... like Ford Gray dark. I painted my GPW engine with Plasticote high temp engine enamel Gray.. I want to say the number was like 514 or 506.. I still have a can. I may just go with that.

 

They also list a GMC Six cylinder Olive for 39-48. Yep, GMC olive.

 

http://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=477

 

From what I can gather, the oil filter grey is very light, the grey used on the engine itself is very dark indeed, I have a sample card but it looks too dark to me.

As an aside, Im sure I have seen pics of Chevys where the fuel filter bowl (just the bowl, not the cast upper section) was the same shade of light grey as the oil filter. Would you agree? I think on CCKWs it may have been either OD or olive green (just my guess, not fact), if this is accurate maybe it has something to do with fuel filter positioning, ie; engine bay on CCKWs, under cab on G506s

[deadline]

Gray seems to be the right choice for the CCKW and Gray was also the color of some Chevy engines. The NOS oil filters that I have seen are civvy ones (even had the round AC civvy version decal). Now is Chevy Gray the same as Ford Gray? I've talked to one guy who said the 'New Ford Gray' out now is close. Thats what I painted my GPW engine with and I think thats a good choice.

 

I have several feelers out and one lead (from a gentleman on this board) to possibly get pics of the oil decal. The lid decal is what I am looking from. The post on tm9-801 shows enough to get a good replica made... but I have no reference for the lid at all.

 

I even have a lead at the Patton Museum on Kentucky to look under the hood of Pattons 'original' ST-5 CCKW shop van conversion.. looking for decals.:nut::nut:

 

One thing that my research has brought up is the color/decals on 'NOS' Military Senior Oil filters. From what I can determine, spares from supply are black. The only Military Senior oil filters that were Gray were direct from the factory. So when people say they have a NOS Senior oil filter can, is it black or gray? The black filter body's don't appear to have decals. That kind of makes sense as the AC logo would only be applied on a factory engine, a supplier of bare oil filter bodies would not have the license to label them AC as they have no idea where the body will end up.. on a Herculies or Ford engine? Ditto for the oil filter breather. From the factory on a CCKW they had a specific AC decal. But the supplier of spares would not be able to label them as they have no idea if they are going on a GM engine. And pics of NOS (right out of the wrapper) do not have decals... so that seems to follow the 'Generic, un-decal-ed NOS supply part' theory.

Edited January 4, 2011 by deadline

[R Cubed]

This is very confusing if the original filter housings had the decals on them how come there aren't any around on trucks these days ? you would think that the housings would not have been changed at a service so why are they so rare !! Did they actually run out of grey decaled housings and went over to using generic housings which were black ?

 

Good work though, keep it up.

[R Cubed]

I have been rummaging in my TM and other GMC type books and the only thing I can turn up is in The GMC A Universal Truck by Jean-Michel Boniface Page 12 there is a GMC engine on the floor and the oil filter is in view, the filter is a grey colour and there is a decal on the side of it in an oval shape just like the post of the Sherman oil filters by Deadline. Maybe of help.

[deadline]

Please read this:

 

http://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=488

 

While some CCKW owners may use A Universal Truck and the other CCKW picture books as references, they are poor references simply because they detail the CCKW AFTER US Army Service. They may have the odd TM photo, but I own all of those books and the picture quality it horrible.

 

The 'early' oil body decal is not in the TM10s that I could find. It seems that the early CCKW contracts released a new TM for just about every order. Between 41-42 there are at least 6 TMs (Parts Books and Maintenance) and none of them show the decals. Only the TUP Assembly manual had the decal.

 

The 'late' decal appears in the April 43 TM9 and was quite easy to read once the camera had the proper amount of light.

 

I had maintained that the oil filter color was white, and had heard that it was gray, but when I pressed the people saying Gray they could not support their theory. When I came across an article about Chevy civvy oil filters is when the connection between the S-2 and S-6 civvy oil filters beginning life as the Military Senior and Junior filters was made, and the S-2/S-6 filters were gray. This is still a rather unsupported theory because most of the original Gray oil filters shown to me did not have the factory decals.

 

If anyone has a factory gray Military Senior oil filter with decals, please post a pic!! To date I have spoken with two people who say they have NOS oil filters, but that they are still in the wrap and they will not open them.

 

Thant brings me to my last observation. NOS oil filter NOT supplied on the original GMC engine were black, and not decaled. I have seen many, many NOS oil breathers that had no decals. And many NOS Military Senior oil filters that are black, and had no decals (at least not the AC decal, the lid decal is still unknown). My best guess is that since there 'supply' oi filters could be ordered as a generic replacement for *ANY* engine using the now standardized (since about 1942) Military Senior oil filter that the manufacturer did NOT put the AC decal on them for two reasons. First, in mid 1942 the Army mandated that all manufacturer logos be removed from Army parts (the Jeep lost the script tailgate, teh CCKW lost the GMC brush guard logo, etc) and second the filter was a universal replacement that could go on a Tank engine made by Ford, a Hercules engine, a GMC engine etc so it made little sense to put the AC logo on them.

 

That is what I can gather regarding the oil filters. Since I am seeking answers and not just opinions (and I regard this as research, not as casual conversation) simply taking someones word at it is not good enough. In my mind until there is proof of a Gray, AC decaled Military Senior oil filter coming out of the NOS wrapper they didn't. It not that I am calling anyone a liar, but I want to be able to say with CERTAINTY that it happened that way.

[G506]

Please read this:

 

http://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=488

 

 

I had maintained that the oil filter color was white, and had heard that it was gray, but when I pressed the people saying Gray they could not support their theory. When I came across an article about Chevy civvy oil filters is when the connection between the S-2 and S-6 civvy oil filters beginning life as the Military Senior and Junior filters was made, and the S-2/S-6 filters were gray. This is still a rather unsupported theory because most of the original Gray oil filters shown to me did not have the factory decals.

 

If anyone has a factory gray Military Senior oil filter with decals, please post a pic!! To date I have spoken with two people who say they have NOS oil filters, but that they are still in the wrap and they will not open them.

 

That is what I can gather regarding the oil filters. Since I am seeking answers and not just opinions (and I regard this as research, not as casual conversation) simply taking someones word at it is not good enough. In my mind until there is proof of a Gray, AC decaled Military Senior oil filter coming out of the NOS wrapper they didn't. It not that I am calling anyone a liar, but I want to be able to say with CERTAINTY that it happened that way.

 

Deadline,

I'm reasonably confident that my oil filter colour is original, but as you say, this is unsupported. I cant guarantee its original fitment from 1942, plus there was no evidence of any decal having been there from new. So realistically this is of little use to you.

I have just one problem; The decal I was planning on using (from Jim Carter) I now know is incorrect so I will hunt around and try to get a new one made. Obviously the early pattern decal has the script ' AC oil filter', but do you have the part numbers that are printed below this?

Good luck with the research, I look forward to hearing about the results.

[G506]

Nearly forgot,

the grey paint I used on my oil filter canister (which seems a reasonable match) is;

Plasti-kote, Projekt paint, Satin Super, number 2119, Window grey, in 400 ml aerosol.

[deadline]

This is very confusing if the original filter housings had the decals on them how come there aren't any around on trucks these days ? you would think that the housings would not have been changed at a service so why are they so rare !! Did they actually run out of grey decaled housings and went over to using generic housings which were black ?

 

Good work though, keep it up.

 

 

My best estimate is that when an engine went back for 3rd/4th Echelon repair the parts were removed, and new supply parts were installed. The old oil filter would be cleaned/repaired/tested and fitted with the all black, non-ac-decaled oil filter.

 

This would also explain why engines were no longer 'wet olive' (aka the original GMC factory paint) but simply OD. The rebuild process of cleaning/inspecting would remove the old paint, or the process simply mandated repainting. What color would the Army have oodles of? OD.

[deadline]

Easiest way to tell if you have a Military Senior/Junior filter is to look at the lid. Stamped around the flange it will clearly say 'Military Senior/Junior Oil Filter'. The S-6/S-2s did not have that.

 

I check e-bay occasionally and there have been quite a few S-6's come up... gray paint and all.

[JOURNEYMAN]

HI DEADLINE,

WHILST LOOKING FOR GMC BITS ON E-BAY, I CAME ACROSS A SHOP ON E-BAY FRANCE (e-bay.fr) SELLING DECALS

FOR GMC,DODGE AND JEEPS. I,M NOT SURE IF THEY ARE EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR BUT IT MAY HELP.

THE SELLERS ID IS stephane712 AND THE ITEM NO. I WAS LOOKING AT IS 310205233246.

E-MAIL : mogluxmag@aol.com

I ALSO FOUND HIS WEBSITE , http://www.lesasdelondres.com ( GOOGLE WILL TRANSLATE THE PAGE )

I,M AFRAID I CANNOT TELL IF THE DECALS ARE WW2, POST WAR OR CIVILIAN.

HOPE THIS HELPS,

REGARDS

STEVE

[deadline]

I believe that is a post war civvie decal. There are currently a few on e-bay (US) and most list them as 50's-60's.

 

The biggest issue that I can positively verify is that the cleaning interval is 1000 miles:

 

TM9-801 April 1944 page 81 para d(1):

Daily, check level and if necessary fill to level mark. Every 1,000 miles remove element and reservoir and wash all parts.

 

Yet the decals state:

"Wash Filter Element in Kerosene every 2000 miles...

 

Also the TMs state for cleaning solvents:

 

"Use dry-cleaning solvent, or Diesel fuel oil.."

 

Kerosene is not mentioned.

 

I have yet to come across a picture or TM that shows the air cleaner decal and text.

 

Thanks for looking, I really appreciate the help.