Diana and Jackie Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 We have a problem!... apart from the others this is a big one :nut: leaks from the differential prop shaft output - a faulty oil seal. Does anyone know how many oils seals if any (yes know about the fluid flywheel seal can) be replaced on the gearbox/diffferential/prop shaft drives without removing the gearbox - but maybe pulling it back and removing relevant bits? Diana and Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugly Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 its not a huge job to remove the gearbox on the Mk 1's ,quite a bit more on a turreted version. Yes you can pull the box back some way but if you go that far , its not much further to take it right out of the top. I lifted mine out with an engine crane. I suppose you can do a lot with the box pulled back but it would be quite uncomfortable to work on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 Its a mark 2 - that's the problem - removing the turret! If the 4 prop shaft drive oil seals can be changed with the box in situ please let us know.. just changed the 4 brake cylinders and cables - the cable adjuster on the rear offside is a PIG to get at/adjust, so dont fancy removing the box after all that if possible. Diana and Jackie (The Ferret Girls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 i guess you needed to change cables as well as wheel cylinders ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Its a mark 2 - that's the problem - removing the turret! If the 4 prop shaft drive oil seals can be changed with the box in situ please let us know.. just changed the 4 brake cylinders and cables - the cable adjuster on the rear offside is a PIG to get at/adjust, so dont fancy removing the box after all that if possible. Diana and Jackie (The Ferret Girls) Hi Girls, You did not say which seal was leaking, if it is one that goes to a front propshaft, then a relatively easy job, you will need to drain the transfer box oil first. The nut in the centre of the flange will be tight but if the other shafts are on, then the flange will not turn. You may need a pluller to remove the flange, but cross that bridge when you get to it, it may come off with a slight tap, there is a split pin securing the nut. Once the flange is removed, the seal housing can be unbolted and seal removed and new one fitted. Make sure there is no rust or mark on the seal path of the flange. If you have to change a seal on a rear one as well, the practise of doing a front (easy), will help. best of luck regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 Thanks Richard - eactly the advice we needed. We do have a pullers. And Yes the cylinders usually come with cables if new parts. Diana And Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 cables come with cylinders but you can split them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Hi again Richard, Changing these particular seals is not difficut - we decided to do all four, and took the side hatches off to do it as well as replacing all 16 prop shaft bolts and nylocks with new high tensile ones. It now maybe that the 2 seals between the gearbox and transverse box are also gone hard as I have a suspicion that the gearbox oil level is dropping, now that the transverse box is empty after we suctioned it out with an oil pump. A new gearbox is an astronomical price :-| so how easy or hard is it to change those 2 seals plus the input shaft seal and we may as well do the brake bands? Apart from deterioration with age the gearbox appears to be OK. Diana and Jackie Hi Girls, You did not say which seal was leaking, if it is one that goes to a front propshaft, then a relatively easy job, you will need to drain the transfer box oil first. The nut in the centre of the flange will be tight but if the other shafts are on, then the flange will not turn. You may need a pluller to remove the flange, but cross that bridge when you get to it, it may come off with a slight tap, there is a split pin securing the nut. Once the flange is removed, the seal housing can be unbolted and seal removed and new one fitted. Make sure there is no rust or mark on the seal path of the flange. If you have to change a seal on a rear one as well, the practise of doing a front (easy), will help. best of luck regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Hi again Richard, Changing these particular seals is not difficut - we decided to do all four, and took the side hatches off to do it as well as replacing all 16 prop shaft bolts and nylocks with new high tensile ones. It now maybe that the 2 seals between the gearbox and transverse box are also gone hard as I have a suspicion that the gearbox oil level is dropping, now that the transverse box is empty after we suctioned it out with an oil pump. A new gearbox is an astronomical price :-| so how easy or hard is it to change those 2 seals plus the input shaft seal and we may as well do the brake bands? Apart from deterioration with age the gearbox appears to be OK. Diana and Jackie Hi Diana and Jackie, When I worked on Ferrets for the army, I remember that a few Ferrets had transmissions with a common oil level, and 30 engine oil right through (ie gearbox and transfer box). There was little to identify these boxes, other than something painted on the top. They still had two fillers and two dipsticks. If you have lost some of your gearbox oil since draining the transfer box, this could be the answer. Did you notice what the oil drained from the t/box was like? This did not appear at the time, to be a general modification, so perhaps it was a trial. It just could be you have one of these boxes. I have just double checked the EMER's and nothing mentioned in them. If you look in the top of the gearbox, and observe the current oil level, it would be just below centre of mainshaft if seals were faulty, but if much below that, then I would think this is one of the odd boxes. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Hi Richard, We'll ponder this and get back to you... on the face of it then it seems possible to fill both boxes with SAE30? There's a world of difference between SAE30 and EP90, I do know that one box has oil and the other, which I had filled correctly is not now filled correctly...on top of which the transverse box oil which we withdrew had all the look of water contamination (milky) though I am not sure if that was an effect of mixing SAE30 and EP90... Its bad enough having oil seals on the outside without having them inside. In any event sometime this weekend the brake band cover over the adjusters is going to come off so we can assess the state of the brake bands. Diana and Jackie Hi Diana and Jackie, When I worked on Ferrets for the army, I remember that a few Ferrets had transmissions with a common oil level, and 30 engine oil right through (ie gearbox and transfer box). There was little to identify these boxes, other than something painted on the top. They still had two fillers and two dipsticks. If you have lost some of your gearbox oil since draining the transfer box, this could be the answer. Did you notice what the oil drained from the t/box was like? This did not appear at the time, to be a general modification, so perhaps it was a trial. It just could be you have one of these boxes. I have just double checked the EMER's and nothing mentioned in them. If you look in the top of the gearbox, and observe the current oil level, it would be just below centre of mainshaft if seals were faulty, but if much below that, then I would think this is one of the odd boxes. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Hi Richard, We'll ponder this and get back to you... on the face of it then it seems possible to fill both boxes with SAE30? There's a world of difference between SAE30 and EP90, I do know that one box has oil and the other, which I had filled correctly is not now filled correctly...on top of which the transverse box oil which we withdrew had all the look of water contamination (milky) though I am not sure if that was an effect of mixing SAE30 and EP90... Its bad enough having oil seals on the outside without having them inside. In any event sometime this weekend the brake band cover over the adjusters is going to come off so we can assess the state of the brake bands. Diana and Jackie Diana and Jackie, I cannot remember how far up the gearbox, the correct oil level is, looking at the sectioned drawings in EMER's, the seals are quite high up, ie on mainshaft level through gearbox geartrain, that means the bottom part of the geartrain is below seal level, so if oil level is below this, then it is passing to the t/box by some other means. I cannot think that both seals have failed, a bit of time investigating will pay off hopefully. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted September 26, 2010 Author Share Posted September 26, 2010 All seals renewed, transfer box drained and refilled with Carlube EP90. The hardest parts were removing the spilt pins holding the drive shaft flanges, especially at the rear, luckily we had a breaker bar otherwise we would never have been able to remove some of the bolts, plus two good quality socket sets, and the most essential part a magnetic pickup. Joints were sealed with Silicon RTV and fingers crossed we cannot see any leaks. Finally below are the brake band adjusters, which dont look too bad? We'll be checking the level of all gearboxes for a short while. The green "pipe" is in fact spilt hosepipe over the tachometer drive to protect it, the appaling black things are the battery cables which we'll be replacing with welding cable from TCL. Thanks to Richard for his help! Diana and Jackie Diana and Jackie, I cannot remember how far up the gearbox, the correct oil level is, looking at the sectioned drawings in EMER's, the seals are quite high up, ie on mainshaft level through gearbox geartrain, that means the bottom part of the geartrain is below seal level, so if oil level is below this, then it is passing to the t/box by some other means. I cannot think that both seals have failed, a bit of time investigating will pay off hopefully. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 All seals renewed, transfer box drained and refilled with Carlube EP90. Finally below are the brake band adjusters, which dont look too bad? We'll be checking the level of all gearboxes for a short while. Thanks to Richard for his help! Hi Diana and Jackie, Good to see you completed the job. Band conditions look fine according to the adjusters. Glad to be of assistance :-) regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeferret Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Just thought I would bring this up again...very interesting thread.......Great job...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Dear Diana and Jackie and Richard, I am interested to understand how from the photos the status of the bands can be determined. My friend Al has a Ferret with gears one and two that slip horribly. I am but a mere neophyte in the world of brake band adjustment and am struggling to see what you see. Anything you can point out is knowledge to us. Thank you in advance Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) Dear Diana and Jackie and Richard, I am interested to understand how from the photos the status of the bands can be determined. My friend Al has a Ferret with gears one and two that slip horribly. I am but a mere neophyte in the world of brake band adjustment and am struggling to see what you see. Anything you can point out is knowledge to us. Thank you in advance Robin Al needs to reset the bands or at least undo the cover over the bands to have a look see if the threaded part is anywhere near the top of the slotted nuts (wrong terminology). Al will still need to reset the bands in the gearbox. Richard should be able to help a bit more. Brads Canadian Ferret gearbox small amount of adjustment available as the screws r near the top of the slots and from memory first gear and second were non existent http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N732ENGhIsU&feature=share&list=UUP2ElpvMyq IEwLgWg3VNWDQ Edited November 16, 2013 by ferrettkitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I will try to watch it more than 15 times and get back with more questions Thank you R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I am interested to understand how from the photos the status of the bands can be determined. Robin, Two things you look for, first is how far down the end of the male thread is from top of auto adjuster nut, if it is within 1/8" of the top or protruding then the band is worn out. I had to go and check a Ferret once where it was being shipped to Canada a day or so later, no 1st gear, the thread had come so far through the nut that there was a dent in the top cover! Well and truly worn out. Right second thing you will notice if you are familiar with the boxes is how a worn band will sit lower than its neighbour. Your friend Al, should study the EMER's until he understands the workings then go through the adjustments to the letter. The pedalling up procedure is often found to be more physical exercise for the driver than adjusting the bands, because the square head bolts that the pawl rides on are often out of range, so bands wear considerably without auto adjustment. One of our forum members, Montie from South Africa with the Saracen had gearbox problems and after a number of emails to and fro, I asked him if we could talk on Skype. We arranged a time and he removed the cover off the box as instructed. While his mate held the camera on the box, Montie went through the gears and I was able to spot an adjustment problem in the gear engaging linkage. Once that was rectified and bus bar heights checked, I understand his problem was solved. Hope this helps. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Very slowly, im getting it, i think. What governs the adjustment of those square headed bolts that the pawl strikes on, that is the part that seems to me to be critical as to whether the pedal up process actual does anything, which is what I think Richard is trying to say. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Very slowly, im getting it, i think. What governs the adjustment of those square headed bolts that the pawl strikes on, that is the part that seems to me to be critical as to whether the pedal up process actual does anything, which is what I think Richard is trying to say. R There are different settings for each gear, known as bus bar heights, done with the measuring tool shown in EMERs. Once these are done and the pedal feel right, then the square head adjusters are set. What you do is bring them out to the pawl and set. Mark the self-adjuster nut, unhook the spring, turn nut anticlock 1/4 of a turn. Hook spring back on and start to pedal up that gear. the nut should gradually turn back to its original set position and no more. Once this is ascertained, the gear is set and as gradual wear on the band occurs, the auto adjuster will compensate. It should not over adjust. It is easier for me to do this than write it, as the workings of the box need to be understood first. I strongly advise anyone who does the adjustments to read the book and understand it and not to do any turning of the adjusters without taking note of what they have done. cheers Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 There are different settings for each gear, known as bus bar heights, done with the measuring tool shown in EMERs. Once these are done and the pedal feel right, then the square head adjusters are set. What you do is bring them out to the pawl and set. Mark the self-adjuster nut, unhook the spring, turn nut anticlock 1/4 of a turn. Hook spring back on and start to pedal up that gear. the nut should gradually turn back to its original set position and no more. Once this is ascertained, the gear is set and as gradual wear on the band occurs, the auto adjuster will compensate. It should not over adjust. It is easier for me to do this than write it, as the workings of the box need to be understood first. I strongly advise anyone who does the adjustments to read the book and understand it and not to do any turning of the adjusters without taking note of what they have done. cheers Richard I'll be doing it in the next few days I just need to get my spare gearbox from my parents house. I'll post up some pics of what a worn band looks like from a gearbox that had been left in gear with the engine running. Not a pretty sight, I've binned two of the drums as they wouldn't come apart even with the magic hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Richard, thank you for all the info, I have read the manual and understand parts of it all, im slowly getting to grips with what I don't. As with any of these tasks, they are daunting until he first one is done properly and then one wonders what all the fuss was about. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) I bought this gearbox last year the Ferret that it had come out off had been left in gear with the handbrake on. It pratically welded two off the drums in the box together, the hammer and a drift couldn't separate them. Where the heat had been could be seen through the drums and the shaft. Can you guess which band is worn out? Sorry Richard this question doesn't apply to you same goes to any facebook users on the Daimler Ferret page. [ATTACH=CONFIG]84484[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]84485[/ATTACH] Thought I would throw a few pictures up off the gearbox that I bought five or so years back from Swansea which I started stripping down at the weekend. [ATTACH=CONFIG]84481[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]84482[/ATTACH] Edited November 25, 2013 by ferrettkitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Can you guess which band is worn out? Sorry Richard this question doesn't apply to you same goes to any facebook users on the Daimler Ferret page. no worries! I am going to stand back and see how many have been paying attention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 In pictures 3 and 4 i would say that it is the second from the left gear. Dont have my manal to ID the gear but thats the one I choose as being naff. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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