17 pdr

[crets]

Crets,

The manual I have for the 17 pdr is more of a user manual than technical and does'nt offer much info into the gun,the 17 pdr is very similar to the 25 when it comes down to strip,quite simple.

I may be able to take some close up pics of the sight mount for you if you wish.

The majority of gun equipment fitted to the piece is the same as the 25 pdr such as tool and spares box,tools etc,I do have some spare wartime dated bill hooks and oil cans.

 

Tim,

I hope you are well,

what 2 pdr parts are you looking for ? I thought the land of OZ was full of 2 pdr's but it seems they are in demand every where you go !

I have been collecting bits and bobs for the 2 pdr just incase I get lucky one day and find one.

 

Rob.................rnixartillery collection.

 

Hello Rob,

 

Some close -up pictures of the sight and the "bill hooks" will be great!

Do you have any idea witch number the ATK sight has for the 17pdr?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Grtz

 

Crets

[Scivo18]

Hi Rob

 

The main items that I am looking for are the sight bracket,( I have the 'horse shoe' mount that goes over the barrel) , the part of the trigger mechanism that runs from the breech forward to where the barrel pivots, the elbow?? guard, the two clamps that hold the front arms in the folded up position and the leather tool box to mount on the top of the ready use ammo box.

 

I can forward photo's of the gun as it is if that helps.

 

Any parts help and info would be great

 

Tim

[AlienFTM]

I think the last Europan user of 17pdr was Denmark until 1970 when M10Cs were decommisioned and from what has been said they used the ammunition in one last training bash.

 

While the Task Force was cabbying around in the South Atlantic in 1982, I was cabbying around the Tank Ranges at Oxbol in Denmark and 15/19H were exercising and live firing alongside a Danish tank regiment.

 

My memory told me the Danes' very old Centurions had 17pdr guns. I am quite sure they did not have 105s (guns were not big - long - enough for a bore evacuator). but as always, I stand ready to be proved wrong.

[Adrian Barrell]

There are/were Cents on the Danish ranges but would have been 20 pdr. There are/were however lots of M10 17 pdr, no doubt what you saw.

[AlienFTM]

There are/were Cents on the Danish ranges but would have been 20 pdr. There are/were however lots of M10 17 pdr, no doubt what you saw.

 

Probably. 17pdr / 20 pdr, not a lot of difference externally. Off to find out when the Danes replaced Cent with Leo.

[Niels v]

Hi

First thing there is a " rangefinder" for a 17 pdr gun on ebay at the moment if any is interessed:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WWII-RANGEFINDER-FOR-77mm-ANTI-TANK-ARTILLERY-1943_W0QQitemZ250559890283QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Militaria_LE?hash=item3a5688836b item #250559890283

 

seconed

the first centurions the danish army got, where MkIII with 20 Pdr guns, some of these where upgrated in to 105 mm gun in 1964.

there is one cent remaining in denmark with the 20 Pdr gun

Leopard 1 where bougt in 1974 and delivered in 1976.

the last centurion upgrate was in 1985 where they got night sight and laser range finders.

the centurions where taken out of service in the early nineties. and scraped in 96-98

 

as adrian said, the danish got 48 M10 Achilles IC from Canada through the MDAP, in 1955, the last ones where demobbed in 1982, and there are still a number of them left in Denmark.

the danish army also had the towed 17Pdr AT gun, a number of these where bought in 1945 form the british army. a few has survived

 

Cheers

Edited January 15, 2010 by Niels v

[Adrian Barrell]

Probably. 17pdr / 20 pdr, not a lot of difference externally. QUOTE]

 

Muzzle brake being the obvious one.

[rnixartillery]

Great pictures,There's not many pictures floating around showing the 17 pdr,so its nice to see fresh images of the piece.

The gun sight on e-bay is not correct for the towed gun .

 

Rob............................rnixartillery

[Adrian Barrell]

That ''rangefinder'' is of course a sighting telescope for a Comet tank so not strictly for 17 pdr.

[Niels v]

I allso thought it looked a bit different from the sight that I have seen on a M10 IC.

I will see if I can finde more pictures of 17 Pdrs.

cheers

[steveo578]

The web site

www.armyvehicles.dk/

has much interesting information on Danish Armoured vehicles if I remember correctly it shows a photo of a 17pdr A30 Avenger tank destroyer on a Range which I assume is Danish, perhaps they trialed the type possibly prior to receiving the M10c which were reburbished at Montreal-probably from Canadian DND stocks under MADP of 1955.

 

As to the last use of M10c in Denmark, the last service date I mentioned of 1970 was by reserve units charged with defence of Baltic ports from Soviet Naval landing forces. After the 1970 qualification firings it was decided to withdraw the type, this was due to concerns over ammunition- having reached its "sell by date"- it is of course perfectly possible for some of the M10c to be held in reserve until 1982.

 

There is a series of photos in Wheels and Tracks 33 (1990) page 45 of various AFVs (not exclusively Danish) including at least two M10c at the military training area Oksbel Nr Esbjerg.

 

Steve

[steveo578]

With regard to 17pdr armed Centurions, AFAIK only U.K. (Mk1 and Mk2) and Eygpt (Mk1) and Jordan (Mk1) used it. I don't know how many Jordan got but I think the Eygptians got 8 Mk1s.

 

Most Mk2 were eventually converted to 20pdr armed tanks but some were still 17pdr armed until the mid 1950s on home service to use relatively cheap and available 17pdr ammunition. It is possible that one 17pdr armed Mk2 was rebuilt as an Evassive Target tank as initally one had a 17pdr barrel- possibly the other ETTs were similar.

[Niels v]

Regarding the ammo for the 17 pdr, I visited Bovington last september, and had a chance to speak wth the headcurrator. very friendly man

He told that the british army had until recently tested all there armour, agianst different guns calibers including a 2 Pdr and a 17Pdr. But the 17 Pdr was not possible any more as no 17 pdr ammo was available.

The last lot of ammo was bought form the Jordanian army.

 

Is it hard to finde parts for the 17 pdr towed guns, as the club that i am member of hopfuly wil be receiving one soon?

 

 

I have attached a picture of the avenger that I think is one mentioned

but I have no knowlegde of them being trialed in Denmark.

there is also a picture of a Churchill wreck being used as recovery object.

 

The last m10 where keept as a reserve tank destroyer squadrons, for Defense of the islands Fyn and Sealand. There rolle as tank destroyers where taken over by centurions with 20 pdr guns 1982. which led to the demob of the M10s

the color picture is taken around 1976 on Fyn

this page http://www.drostrup.com/, list that 24 M10 have survived, but its not completly up to date.

[Adrian Barrell]

I wonder if that A30 is still around...... would be worth recovering if so, it would probably be the only survivor.

[Niels v]

Sorry Adrian,

I can with 99,9% certainty say that it does not exist, I have been In that shooting area, and there is nothing left up there. the hard tagets now is only big metal plates.

many interesting vehicles ended there lives there.... among them a Humber Mk4 in the late eighties.

but the area is cleared now.

the picture is taken in the fifties.

[ajmac]

I notice from the colour photo (1976) that the M10 has Canadian CPD track and drive sprockets fitted, I wonder if that was done before the 1950s shipment to Europe or subisquently, I think Adrian B has said before that they give improved traction over the USA spec track system.

[Adrian Barrell]

The Danish M10s came from Canadian stocks and some were supplied with CDP upon transfer.

 

CDP is lighter, cheaper and kinder on roadwheel tyres than US track. It might give better traction in some conditions than certain US types, notable T51 flat rubber but I think it was the weight and cost that were the major benefits.

[steveo578]

There is a photo of a pair of Canadian M10c arriving in Korea as part of the Canadian UN forces in 1951, they are fitted with T54E1 track. CDP seem to be fitted on MADP Afvs out of Montreal in the mid 1950s although many of the Danish M10Cs have various styles of track including T51 flat and T48 chevroned rubber, perhaps Niels V. might be able to shed light on whether different track types may have been favoured in different local conditions.

 

The A30 'Avenger' on a Danish gunnery range is strange, according to some Afv writers as many as 230 may have been built and equipped 2 RA SPG battalions (about 40 to 96 vehicles depending on the battery requirements), however others say only 2 or 3 prototypes built and one was used for trials at SPTA until 1952. The A30 SPG was developed as a non lease lend alternative to the M10c, it is possible (but a stretch) that if the number of vehicles produced was in the region of 200, U.S. offshore purchasing may have considered them for MADP. Obviously the A30 SPG got there somehow, but stuff on ranges is complex I could be wrong that some of the Cents on Danish ranges were Canadian Army tanks made redundant in 1977- but some could be Dutch as some may be Mk7, most of the Danish Cents were cut up as scrap steel in line with redundant US offshore purchase vehicles -as Centurions were still a viable type.

 

The Churchill 3 is also interesting, it could well have been supplied for use as a dead load to train up recovery personel pending the arrival of the Centurion, the tank looks very like that in the Axvall collection in Sweden -even to the extent of the position of the turret, the Axval tank had its turret traversed to 9 o clock for many years.

 

Steve

 

Cent Mk1 Eygptian.jpg

[Niels v]

Sorry cant help with explaining why the danish army have used the differnet track types, but I know a couple that have served on M10s so I will try to ask them.

 

Yes sadly the danish Centurions where scraped, and we had no chance of saving them. they where scarped togeher with the towed 155mm and 203mm guns.

 

I found another picture of the churchill.

[eddy8men]

hi fella's

I have the sight for this gun, well i think it is anyway, it's the no.51 mk1 dated 1943,if this sight is any use to anyone just let me know and it's yours,(would be better on a gun than in a collection)

 

eddy

[steveo578]

Niels V.

I found another picture of the churchill.

 

Thanks for that, the two photos you posted show a tank very similar to the tank I mentioned in Axvall, At Mk3 with applique on the front sections of the turret but surprisingly none on the hull. The Camoflague and B squadron markings are similar to that now on the Axval tank.

 

MkIIIAxval.jpg

[Niels v]

I Have spoken to one of my friends now regarding the tracks used on the M10s.

He informed me that there was no system regarding what track type that schould be used where.

they used what type of tracks they could get hold of.

[steveo578]

Niels

 

Thanks for that, I noticed that one of the Shermans on the web site you previously mentioned is CDP equiped, No doubt fitted for lack of T48 or T51 track on restoration.

 

Steve

[AlienFTM]

The web site

www.armyvehicles.dk/

Found this.

 

http://www.armyvehicles.dk/ndv.htm

 

Two years after the war I had no idea that the Danes had driven their Ferrets out of Skouriotissa themselves. We (B Sqn 15/19H) took over from A Sqn LG as Force Reserve Squadron who had been in theatre since March 1976 and it seemed as if the status quo had always been thus.

 

Looking back, it explains why we were stationed inside the Danish base, messed directly with them and drank in their Junior Ranks Bar. On our attachments to other contingents we were rather less close to them. Apart from getting our rations from the Austrians in Larnaca, we had very little direct contact with the other contingents apart from while visiting their OPs on patrol or on the booze.

[Keith Brigstock]

Does any one know of a 17pdr that is capable of travailing around the UK more importantly the South of the UK. I am organising 2 events this year where I am truing to amass the Different Artillery of WW2. For the Route to Victory 1st 3rd May and one at the Royal School of Artillery 31st June 1st August