pigdog Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 On the last wheel hub to change the outer tracta oil. I jacked up the left side and with both wheels up the front left wheel wont turn at all. The rear wheel moves the normal amout to take up slack, but the front wheel wont move at all. The parking brake is off with the gearbox and transfer box in nuetral. Is it a stuck brake? Or am I in big trouble? I did notice the front left hub was quite hot after driving it a bit while all the other hubs were just slightly warm. Also the manual is vauge on the vacum servo unit and what oil it uses, and not exactly sure where the oil plug is on it. Thanks -Chris MK 2/3 Ferret 00 EC 55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Chris, It sounds like a stuck brake, which is quite common. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I would say it is a stuck wheel cylinder piston. You can remove the wheel cylinder from the rear of the backplate in order to free the wheel. Cylinder can then be dismantled. There are two bolts securing it to the plate, 1/2"AF spanner size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigdog Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 I take it I have to remove the wheel etc for this operation? Does this inlove bleeding the brakes also? Never played with brakes before. Thanks-Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I take it I have to remove the wheel etc for this operation? Does this inlove bleeding the brakes also? Never played with brakes before. Thanks-Chris Chris, The wheel does not have to be removed, but it would help you to see what is happening. If you are not confident at touching the brakes best get someone along who has experience, although you will not find many who have seen a wheel cylinder of this type before. I am assuming that you or someone, has been driving this Ferret recently? The cylinder is more than likely stuck, common problem as these vehicles stand around a lot. As you drive it, the heat from the dragging brake warms up the alloy cylinder and releasing it. When cold it is back to dragging again. Whatever you do, read the EMER (workshop manual) before attempting anything, so you understand what, how and why. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigdog Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Well Ive owned the Ferret for a month now. The previous owner said he hadnt driven it much at all for a year. I have driven it twice. Just a day before I was to change that wheel hubs oil. I didnt notice any difference driving as far as braking or pulling to that side, but again it could have happened sitting in the garage moving it a little for the hub plugs to get in postion. I have an article from the Ferret heaven web site for unsticking Ferret brakes. I'll take a look and proceed slowly. Thanks for the help. -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have an article from the Ferret heaven web site for unsticking Ferret brakes You do have all the relevant manuals too :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigdog Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have the users manuals and the base, unit, field, and emer, in PDF. and parts lists etc. And of course I can pop on here when I get in trouble........which will be sooner rather than later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonm Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I just did a search for "Ferret brake servo stuck" and got here. I've got sticking brakes, so thought I would add to this rather than create a new thread. here's the symptoms. Apart from the hubs getting hot and the vehicle getting very sluggish. When standing, engine off, all jacked up and supported, the wheels turn fairly easily by hand. Get in, put the brakes on, really hard! The wheels (brakes) lock up and remain locked long enough for me to get out and try the wheels, they are rock hard, brakes on, get back in and while the brake pedal on first try allowed depression as I would expect for a reasonably well setup car, ie a definite amount of travel, no softness. Now the pedal has remained hard, no travel, all brakes remaining on even when no pressure applied. If it was one brake or maybe two I would look at the slave cylinders or somewhere on the brakes being the problem, however all brakes have developed the same problem together. My guess is the master cylinder jamming or perhaps something on the servo? Basically retaining pressure on the whole system. What else indicates the problem is not at the wheel(s), if I slacken off one brake, it frees up all the wheels, ie I'm slackening off the pressure. Next step of course is to read the Manual, any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 are your brakes lights on with eng off ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I just did a search for "Ferret brake servo stuck" and got here. I've got sticking brakes, so thought I would add to this rather than create a new thread. here's the symptoms. Apart from the hubs getting hot and the vehicle getting very sluggish. When standing, engine off, all jacked up and supported, the wheels turn fairly easily by hand. Get in, put the brakes on, really hard! The wheels (brakes) lock up and remain locked long enough for me to get out and try the wheels, they are rock hard, brakes on, get back in and while the brake pedal on first try allowed depression as I would expect for a reasonably well setup car, ie a definite amount of travel, no softness. Now the pedal has remained hard, no travel, all brakes remaining on even when no pressure applied. If it was one brake or maybe two I would look at the slave cylinders or somewhere on the brakes being the problem, however all brakes have developed the same problem together. My guess is the master cylinder jamming or perhaps something on the servo? Basically retaining pressure on the whole system. What else indicates the problem is not at the wheel(s), if I slacken off one brake, it frees up all the wheels, ie I'm slackening off the pressure. Next step of course is to read the Manual, any thoughts? Hello Simon, If you have released a bleeder and all brakes have released, then as you say, master cylinder or servo. To eliminate the master cylinder, check to see if the piston is stcking, this would show up by excess pushrod clearance. I somehow doubt this is the problem as once it was pushed down, it probably would not return. so this then points at the servo. Have you tried operating the brakes without the engine running? If they do not stick then, try with the engine running and if they stick, then it looks like the vacumm side of the servo is at fault. A process of elimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 If that was a conventional system my first thought would be that you had adjusted the master cylinder pushrod and taken all the slack out of it, so the piston coundn't come right back? Check the manuals to see if there should be a specified free play in the master cylinder pushrod, and if there is check it is correct. If there is none - then increase it. If there is way too much then the piston may be stuck and not returning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 u could try disconecting servo vac pipe and seeing if fault still there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonm Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks for all the comments. I thought I would start at the beginning and disassembed the master cylinder. Wow, It was filthy! The fuid which I'm guessing is OM13 was brown and there were small lumps of gunk, so a good clean up of the system is in order. With the master cylinder disconnected from the system, the brakes didn't relax. I'll next remove the servo and clean that and the lines from MC to Servo, basically work through the system. It might just be that coincidentally all cylinders have got gummed up at the same time? I guess tomorrow when I disconnect the servo then a bit more will be revealed. Even so, the whole system will be renovated considering the state of the master cylinder,the root cause of the problem will be a bit of a moot point. If it is the servo I'll of course report here. As to the comment about brake lights remaining on, no. Also I could hear the brake switch / solenoid making and breaking when I touched the brake. (Once I've got this sorted its back to the Saracen Hydraulics) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks for all the comments. I thought I would start at the beginning and disassembed the master cylinder. Wow, It was filthy! The fuid which I'm guessing is OM13 was brown and there were small lumps of gunk, so a good clean up of the system is in order. With the master cylinder disconnected from the system, the brakes didn't relax. I'll next remove the servo and clean that and the lines from MC to Servo, basically work through the system. It might just be that coincidentally all cylinders have got gummed up at the same time? I guess tomorrow when I disconnect the servo then a bit more will be revealed. Even so, the whole system will be renovated considering the state of the master cylinder,the root cause of the problem will be a bit of a moot point. If it is the servo I'll of course report here. As to the comment about brake lights remaining on, no. Also I could hear the brake switch / solenoid making and breaking when I touched the brake. (Once I've got this sorted its back to the Saracen Hydraulics) Hi Simon, The brake system on your Ferret should be normal DOT4 brake fluid.............most certainly not OM13 or any other mineral fluid. If the wrong fluid is used it can swell the seals, I would strip all the cylinders and check for any internal corrosion, then renew the seals. Clean and flush with methalayted spirits. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonm Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks for the advice about the Dot4 being used. I've got a bottle of synthetic so will go through and clean and flush with meths throughout and refill from scratch, I see a trip to Northiam coming on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks for the advice about the Dot4 being used. I've got a bottle of synthetic so will go through and clean and flush with meths throughout and refill from scratch, I see a trip to Northiam coming on. New servo here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HA1-BRAKE-SERVO-SUITABLE-BMC-ALBION-DODGE-GUY-/150484995530?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Commercial_Vehicles_ET&hash=item23099acdca#ht_500wt_922 He also has brake master cylinder kits as well http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOCKHEED-BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-KIT-1-5-BORE-ALBION-/310239771531?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Commercial_Vehicles_ET&hash=item483bbb3b8b#ht_1023wt_905 Plus new master cylinders http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lockheed-Master-Cylinder-1-1-2-Austin-Dodge-BMC-/310259950633?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item483cef2429#ht_886wt_905 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonm Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) Thanks Andy. Servo coming out now, hopefully won't need a new one but very helpful to know where to go. And seems to be part of the problem, taking out the Master Cylinder did nothing to free up the wheels, Releasing the pressure on the first of the brake / wheel slave cylinders and all wheels turn easily. Lots of cleaning and work to do, its brakes so very important, but nice to know roughly where the problem is (unless there's a clogged up pressure regulator somewhere that I've missed?). Edited January 30, 2011 by simonm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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