steveo578

Fair point, but it doesn't always work out well, consider Pounds tendancy to hoard but were prone to bad errors, unless it was tank-shaped alot of stuff was lost - such as cutting up probably the only Churchill ARV Mk1 -after all no one would want a headless churchill. I'm certain I saw a photo of a DD Sherman in Pounds, at least the apron with tube bases and bottle supports, beneath a large pile of tubing.

Preserved in Australia is a Centurion 5 169041 formerly 06BA16 which was subjected to a atomspheric atomic test, it was then washed down, had broken parts (like periscopes) replaced and put back in service including active duty in Vietnam.

Certainly rotates on the racer. see photo of SPK 5 from Soviet Tanks ....1946 to the present by S. Zagola and James Loop. 1987. Sorry that photos have developed a Mor problem. Additional photos are various other Soviet Polish and Czech cranes from the same source. Skp 5 ISU T are Soviet CSLA is czech and CW ISU is Polish. Steve skp 5.jpg csla.jpg ISU T.jpg CW ISU.jpg

The problem is with this one is that the Gulf of Finland is salt water, unlike the recoverys of tanks on inland lakes and bogs. in addition T26 are much less robust being an upgraded Vickers 6ton tank. Steve

Thanks for that, the two M10s in front of middle fell at Warcop still had what could have been a Speed plate but had rotted through and was impossible to read. If I'd known about the towing eyes I might have been able to get the numbers before they went for scrap. Both were later production models. I recall a photo in Wheels and Tracks of a Vee turreted M10 in Pounds yard -I suppose your M10 was possibly from there. Steve

Not really there is some stuff in the old osprey-vanguard "Allied Tank Destroyers" by Brian Perrett, but not recommended as a purchase assuming it is still available, the information in my post came from notes from the early 1990s of M10 service by Richard Harley in AFV news, which he direct sourced from PRO and Bovington files. There is still a lack of good specific books on many British WW2 tanks. "Sherman" by Hunnicutt gives brief but probably the best coverage (apart from getting involved with the real thing) of the conversion of 3inch to 17pdr M10, but like most Hunnicutt books does not give service record as such. Steve

Adrian Thanks for that, as usual I mixed up serial and registration numbers- in the M10 where is the serial no. stamped. Steve

The M10c 17pdr SPG was in service on D.Day, three RA regiments landed on D.Day 20th,suporting 3rd infantry div, 62nd - I corps and 73rd -XXX corps followed by a further eight Anti tank regiments by 1-8-44, including one Polish and two Canadian CRA units. all will have had a mixture of 17pdr M10 and 3inch gun M10 along with towed 17pdr. Any sign of a serial number on the M10 Adrian? Steve

Probably from the Shrewburyness range, there are/were some interesting turretless Cents at the DERA establishment near Seascale used for mobile mounts for weapons trials.

Just a approximation from what a T55 cost, I don't show any interest in things that are "phone for price".

Jack I thought you forbad profane language on the forum, Jimmy Nail indeed!!!:shocked: Hi Lee I'm a geordie too. Steve

Supertrack The one piece differential housing is a bit odd- the two neat holes above the calipers, do you know what it was off, was it used as some sort of plant equipment. Steve

With regard to 17pdr armed Centurions, AFAIK only U.K. (Mk1 and Mk2) and Eygpt (Mk1) and Jordan (Mk1) used it. I don't know how many Jordan got but I think the Eygptians got 8 Mk1s. Most Mk2 were eventually converted to 20pdr armed tanks but some were still 17pdr armed until the mid 1950s on home service to use relatively cheap and available 17pdr ammunition. It is possible that one 17pdr armed Mk2 was rebuilt as an Evassive Target tank as initally one had a 17pdr barrel- possibly the other ETTs were similar.

The web site www.armyvehicles.dk/ has much interesting information on Danish Armoured vehicles if I remember correctly it shows a photo of a 17pdr A30 Avenger tank destroyer on a Range which I assume is Danish, perhaps they trialed the type possibly prior to receiving the M10c which were reburbished at Montreal-probably from Canadian DND stocks under MADP of 1955. As to the last use of M10c in Denmark, the last service date I mentioned of 1970 was by reserve units charged with defence of Baltic ports from Soviet Naval landing forces. After the 1970 qualification firings it was decided to withdraw the type, this was due to concerns over ammunition- having reached its "sell by date"- it is of course perfectly possible for some of the M10c to be held in reserve until 1982. There is a series of photos in Wheels and Tracks 33 (1990) page 45 of various AFVs (not exclusively Danish) including at least two M10c at the military training area Oksbel Nr Esbjerg. Steve

The Cenutrion with the Jones KL 11.7 crane was the second incarnation of the type. Previously the tank had a S7-10 crane fitted until the crane was written off when ithe tank fell into a hole. A photo of the both types are shown in Simon Dunstans Centurion book published in 1980 by Ian Allen.

You're correct the T34/85 had 2 hatches, the cupola hatch is visible but the loaders hatch next to it is not defined enough in this view. As far as I'm aware both parties were to destroy exactly the same number of tanks many in former Soviet Union and Satelites were broken up in remanufacturing plants. The regulations of CFE were evidently quite rigid and this had severe effects on sales to private dealers and individuals, in effect the transfer of a historic tank from the East even for private ownership was added to number of tanks available to the West, thus requiring a further reduction of Western holdings by 2 tanks. The release by the MOD/DOD of a historic CFE tank to a private owner or museum within a country required another tank to be struck off the military holding. Of course the whole treaty became obsolete with the fall of comunism - which for example left numbers of former East German tanks in the NATO inventory. CFE still continued to its conclusion at least in the West. In Russia itself many tanks that were scrapped were T34s classed as MBTs! Thus allowing as you say a trickle down of more modern types to Russian border guard units and the forces of alegedly independant regions, as apparent in the recent Georgian dispute, where semi military forces were seen using T62s. There are certainly a number still available at least four are shown in the Polish tanks thread, but the prices are rather high (POA prices are usually suspect) certainly in this instance in excess of £40k! they are asking for a T55! Steve

Some interesting stuff on both sites, the ZIS 3 at 2000 euro is interesting as is the PPS 43 SMG, the T34s on PA-KO are of interest especially as the question of how much for a T34/85 has been raised on another thread. Price is POA and I would think at least £50k but one at least is a fairly original Savod 183 with contemporary ribbed wheels.

Transforme were MADP about 1952 vintage, but being a ground up rebuild it could be done either way.

fantastic, direct vison slots too, good luck -a very brave project:) Steve

You beat me to it Meteor mak4b in the past stuff has disappeared disposed of to the overly affluent, I personally do not want to see artifacts, range hulks or otherwise being sold off to private individuals and never being seen again, as sacrifices to the altar of the Tiger tank. Incidently for all those who consider the tiger as a unique mobile asset -Saumur has run its Tiger 2 and also has a Panther running Steve

Perhaps the boilers were locomotive types used as fixed plant in the guiness brewery.

2 x 7.62mm gun turrets and a 30mm Raden turret, which one is the fourth?

Guy motors received an royal commision award shortly after WW2 for developing a very similar manipulator for armoured car hulls and similar systems were used in Churchill production and by Vickers for there tank production but the vickers system used a attachment to the nose and tail of the hull boat. It says something about Adrians dedication that he would make such an item normally only seen in large factories.

I would think many were painted at depots or factories, for example many Churchills are "marked for the soviet ukraine" in very stylised crylic. The same tanks often have a later Heroic name in more conventional script -but still very correct even beautiful caligraphy- even the more sloganistic writing as "crush the facist" or "kill the German invaders" is still well writen whereas the bort numbers (tactical numbers) are often quite crude.

The tank seems to be a Zavod 112 1944-45 model (no vison slot in gunners side, twin ventilators and split cupola) has undergone the 1960s style rebuild. Steve