steveo578

As a whole it was probably beyond it, according to what has been said on other sites/blogs it has been used as a target for naplam bombs and air weapons, I suppose the glacis could have been recovered for the Feldom Mk1 -not quite the correct design as it has later periscope type drivers hoods but better than nothing and the drivers hatches might have been viable. Steve

By capture or handed over after the Armastice, -possibly even left behind in Southern France after occupation in WW2 by Italian forces.

it does not have a schneider breach ring. Looks like a Skoda 100mm model 1914 with original horse traction wheels, I think an example possibly ex Italian was captured by the british in the desert and brought home and was photographed alongside a British 25pdr so it could still exist in some collection. Photos off Wiki Steve

The current targets are Leo 1 and Centurion. It's interesting to read the comments on these photo blogs:-D.

Hi Hanno The volume I viewed was http://picasaweb.google.com/patilrao...agarTankMuseum The same site as I posted in the BARV thread. The photos are number 93 and 121. The photo showing the TATA indcom logo is interesting perhaps TATA is is giving funding to the museum, TATA heavy industries developed from the railway-heavy industry facilities where the Indian Pattern vehicles were built during WW2. I have yet to find any photos of happy Indian families with their newly acquired digi-cameras taking photos of the exhibits that are in the Maidan park in Calcutta, which is where the Mk4 was in the 1970s. One of my mates was in Calcutta a few years ago to work on a heavy industry project and said when he got back -"I saw a couple of tanks" when I asked where were the photos the reply was "No fear, I'm not photographing tanks in India I'll end up in prison" - a mutual friend was nearly arrested in Lahore (his home town) for attempting to photograph the Churchill and Shermans at the PAC centre, -even allowing for the fact that a relative is a senior officer in the border protection force:undecided:. While watching where to step is the most important training:-), I have to say that both UN and members of the various Allies (NATO?) have specialists in both historical and environmental disciplines out there, afv history does not have acumen as other subjects in post graduate research therefore it is not a priority. The only stuff that seems to be saved is the FT18s removed by U.S. army units sometime ago, the first photo you posted is the one where the FT18 is in the centre of the scene. Steve

Hi Hanno Downloaded photo from picasaweb The 1st photo shows the following a Universal Carrier marked T16 (G*d knows why:undecided:) in the mid background a turreted Mk3 and further aft a Mk2 personel carrier, far background a Humber Mk2-3. 2nd photo shows the Mk3 The bad news on another thread is theat the Kabul tank scrapyard is being cleared and I doubt the Mk4 will be saved. I would be surprised if anyone from any of the allies military has really looked at the stuff prior to its disposal. There is a nice photo of a NZ pattern OP Carrier in Jim Mesko book Armor in the Korean War. Steve

Luke As you live in Dorset it would be fairly easy to make some enquiries at Bovington to see if the Post War ZS-ZV registrations for the M10 are held at Bovington. If the Serial number (the number stamped into the towing lugs) is recorded on the vehicle registration card for Post war vehicles it should be possible to find the vehicle, either they could be held at Bovington or may be in the records of the RA. The Post war Registrations for Churchills for example have many diifferent numbers including chassis and engine numbers, list the struck out T number and even mention final fate of the vehicle. After 1948 the M10c retained by the Army were numbered in ZS and ZV registrations. 89 ZS 60 to 98 ZS 17 a possible 857 vehicles? 99 ZS 04 to 99 ZS 07 3 vehicles 37 ZV 86 to 39 ZV 97 which is a batch of 211 numbers that were originally alocated to the A30 Avenger SPG and may have been re-alocated to M10c assuming the Avengers were unavailable. It seems unlikely that all these numbers were atually issued it is more likely that a few hundred survived long enough to be re-registered as Post war vehicles. Steve

Indian police and border guard have been known to modify vehicles but AFAIK Mk4s were not fitted with turrets, certainly not as built.

I never wanted to join the Navy, anything over 100ton and I chuck up even before the vessel casts off. Steve

Hi Hanno Well in a way they are CMPs the two latest pictures are great -2 of them, unfortunately not likely to attact any attention. The photo of the Mk2 Indian pattern carrier in Iraq also shows a Daimler Mk2 and the body of a Crossley indian pattern a/c. great stuff. Steve

Good there was a worry at one stage that it could only be scrapped. nice photo

A.F. Budge (contractors) Ltd which built roads etc and laterly got into Design and Build for commercial and public buildings, being interested in military vehicles (many contractor vehicle were initally ex forces vehicles) mr budge developed a collection of less contractor based military vehicles (sometimes called Tanks) which final developed into A.F. Budge (military) Ltd which at one stage even got into biding for contracts to re-engine army vehicles with Alvis Ltd. So far so good, happy yearly open day events where both restored and unrestored vehicles were shown and sales of everything from de-ac small arms to IS3 stalin tanks, then about 1990 things went bad the various Budge Ltds were broken up and sold off, it was all extremely complex and would require an accountancy or law degree to get round all the ramifications. The Upshot was, the tanks were sold off mainly to the Americans and Robert Fleming who was a major mover and shaker in the AFB (military) set up a company called Robert Fleming Associates and continued to source and import/export various military vehicles notably quite a few ex Yugoslavian AFVs. But I don't know if RFA is now defunct. Steve

Adrian Are you sure it wasn't the pain killers:-D

Hanno Yes that looks like one, some-one has sharp eyes!:-) Couple of nice BAV 485 Dukws in the foreground too, I wonder what use they were? I've copied some photos showing the Afghan museum Indian Patern Mk4 carrier from Armor of the Afghanistan war. Steve

Bystander With regard to survivors I think HMS Cavalier has been mentioned is this the same WW2 destroyer frigate that hung around in the North East for a long time, Has it survived or has it been scrapped.

Some photos of T34 variants at a budge show in the late 1980s no longer available however all probably went west. Photos SU100 Two views of a T34 -100 D44 a/t gun T34/85 122mm howitzer Steve

And I thought I was childish when my mates 2year old shouts "uncle steve you can't play on the swing you're too old":-D:-D:-D

Hi Adrian Perhaps I shouldn't have posted these photos, I don't know the whole story either however to remove the amount of stuff that has been removed from the two churchills would involve a lot of equipment and I am fairly certain from what I have been told that after the Sherman was recovered the site was cleaned up. When stuff is salvaged from a range it is reasonable for those taking the stuff to make an effort to tidy up, in this case no effort has been made. In addition when the OTA churchill was recovered in 2002 alot of effort was made to dispose of trash and back grade the area from where the tank was salvaged. While I take your point that Eddy has gone off half cocked (well it is a military term), I can understand his annoyance, I believe he received a "bollocking" when he enquired about the range shortly after I had been there in the New Year. I too had a very cold reception when I called for permission during the Xmas break- I've had permission at various times to go onto this range back to when Major Wilson was R.O. When I got up there it was not difficult to understand why the range guy was so negative, it wasn't good and had there not been a thick covering of snow and my camera was intermitantly shuting down because of the extreme cold I would have been able to post photos of the state the range is in. There is little point in me wasting my breath asking people to do things correctly when they get the sharp end of the stick because of the previous actions of others. Anyway enough said, I am reposting a photo of the Mk4 turret that I think I put on another thread and two other photos all showing the (comparatively light) left side damage from 1993 and again from 2002 when the turret was popped and the deterioration started, that was when the gun breach was cut out of the Mk7 and tracks hatches and other components were removed - the barrels were cut off earlier. As I said and you have confirmed pior to this time it was a reasonably restorable tank with alot of character too. Regards Steve

Adrian thanks for the prompt response, just wondered with the a fair number of M10s surviving into the post 1948 era that records might be better, perhaps some-one who has rummaged around in the Bovington files might be able to say. Steve

Hi Adrian Another question to get clarification on the Serial number T number and Post 1948 registration numbers **ZS** thing. Are the Serial number from the towings lugs not recorded on the Bovington Vehicle cards? Or is it a case of trawling through all the vehicle cards in the hope of finding a serial number, but not in any sequence? Regards Steve

The second Churchill still visible at Feldom is the remains of the late production Mk7. It is sad to see these 2 vehicles in this state. Considering for many years these vehicles redundant as targets could have been recovered as a whole, certainly the Mk4 which was almost beyond the range of weapons used on 3D had only a few hits and further was only partially filled with concrete, but stripped piecemeal over the past decade and laterly the tearing out of the transmissions, engines and roadwheels, leaving quantities of loose concrete and steel strewn around the range will have done nothing to engender good relations between military enthusiasts restorers and MOD, landowers, farmers and environmentalists. Steve

During the recent snowy spell, I reviewed the current condition of the Churchills on the former A/T range at feldom. The remains of the Churchill Mk4 with Applique armour is shown in the following 5 photos

Snapper Certainly Iron duke could have been saved as it was still in 1946 a depot ship, a number of Revenge or QE class (jutland vets) could have been saved, but as you say scrap iron is scrap iron. The one that got me down was the oportunity to obtain Yavuz Sultan Selim (ex Geoben) from Turkey for under £1m in 1970-71, could even have been done as a joint project with Australia and N.Z. steve

this is really gone Steve air wreck.jpg

I'm sure he could make a good replica of a Lanc from empty cans of Bud. :-D