10FM68

I use The British Army in Germany (BAOR and after) An Organizational History, 1947-2004 by Graham Watson and Richard Ronaldi, Tiger Lily Productions LLC for ORBAT.com 2005. That shows 6 Armd Div to have been supported, from November 1952, by 27 Field Engineer Regiment based in St George's Barracks, Minden with 1, 25 and 28 Field Squadrons and 44 Field Park Squadron under command. According to Staff Duties in the Field, 41 on a blue ground was indeed the AOS marking for the field engineer regiment. According to Dick Taylor's Warpaint, Vol 3, 41 was used by a fd engr sqn, rather than regt, in a WWII armd div. 10 68

Of course, you are most welcome. I should be able to interpret most of it. 10 68

Well, there are only three real choices: either my source which says 14/20H were in Libya in 1964 is wrong, or the detail on your B card is wrong, or you have mis-read it. Sometimes, a unit deploying abroad can leave behind a rear party - this regularly appears on B Cards as "R/Pty" or something similar. I wouldn't have expected 14/20H to have a rear party left in Germany for three years, however, particularly as they didn't return to Germany but went to UK. So, there has to be an error in the mix somewhere. 10 68

14/20H were in Wavell Bks Benghazi, Libya between late 62 and Dec 65, having previously been in Hohne West Germany. They left Libya for Cachy Bks Perham Down from Jan 66. While in Libya, A Sqn was detached to Cyprus, for a tour with UNFICYP in May - Nov 65. 10 68

Well, I don't like change either! But... the new format is actually an improvement. Yes, it is better! In particular, I do like the ability, by using "expanded" mode in "activity", to read the latest posts without having to click on them and open them up. And this can be done without even logging on. So far, I have been able to find everything and follow the threads I enjoy. Some of the filler nonsense such as announcing changes to profile pictures is tiresome, but easy enough to tune out. And I do hope those who have so much to offer the rest of us persevere - I would be very disappointed to see some of the outstanding restoration threads disappear. I do understand, as well, that this was a change forced on you by changes in support - I've seen lots of that at work over the years and they have been a pain most of the time, but, after a week or two of using the new system, we're happy enough and the old one is soon forgotten. And, considering I have access to this vast resource for which I don''t have to pay a penny.... So, thanks Joris, good job, well done! 10 68

Assuming it is genuine, you may be able to work something out form the army number of the original owner on the label. I'm no expert in this field, but I am sure someone on the forum will be. But, Bray's 8-figure army number starts with 235. Well 243 was being issued in the early to mid-70s, so 235 should be a number issued in the 60s. So, assuming the owner served for 22 years ( the maximum likely) he could not have been issued this much after the 1980s I would have thought. 10 68

Very sorry to hear of your misfortune. I hope it is resolved quickly - using the Uaz as the daily driver all through the winter isn't everyone's cup of tea! Best of luck 10 68

http://www.safetydevices.com/i/gallery/121.1315401270.jpg Here's one in NATO green, courtesy Safety Devices' website 10 68

The photo is indeed out by 90 degrees. They are flower pots! Every now and again you get a CO who says, "What a good idea if ..." (Known as a Wageye). And smartening up the guardroom is a perennial favourite if he can't think of anything better. So the REME workshop have been asked to make flower pots - hence the slight over-engineering with angle iron etc! Probably painted in regimental colours to match the kerb stones - another horrible idea which I have seen implemented... But, if it isn't that, then is it something to do with venturis? 10 68

It is a real pleasure to follow the outstanding restoration projects on this forum. The levels of skill in metal-bashing, welding, casting, woodwork, painting etc are extraordinary. I am grateful to all of you who both do the work and then photograph and explain what you are doing for the rest of us - truly inspiring. Thank you all. 10 68

I had one of these when I was in the ACF back in the early 70s. In fact, several in our armoury were similarly marked. As I recall, they were made by The Savage Arms Company of Massachusetts, though Savage also built in Canada. 10 68

I think it is 36th Indian Infantry Division (overlapping white and red circles on a black ground, red to the right). The VRN is British Indian Army. The "68" AOS marking may be, if it followed early post-war British style, the second infantry battalion in the third brigade of an infantry division, in which case it would be on a brown square, but I don't have reference material for the Indian Army at that time - but think it would probably conform to British practice. That would place the vehicle in the Arakan in 43/44 which is probably about right. 10 68.

Have a look at, "The Secret Wireless War, The Story of MI6 Communications 1939 - 1945", by Geoffrey Pidgeon. There are at lest three photos in there, including the one above, of the Dodge in use with the SLU/SCU attached to US HQ. Looking at the photos, it seems that they were in standard US markings. The bonnet numbers seem to be in the 7 series and, on one of them, it appears that, while the number itself is retained, the preceding "USA" has been painted out - or not added. The marking on the LHS front bumper edge - on the white paint on one of the photos is the unit designation "SCU8" and a large name "Joyce" extending the entire width of the radiator grille. According to somewhere in the book - having read it I can't find it again - there were only 9 converted ambulances, but then they were in use only at the highest level US HQ (the British HQ were served by Guy 15Cwts). Clearly Eisenhower had a detachment, as did Bradley, though, it seems Patton's was removed from him during one stage of the battle, much to his annoyance. Of greater interest, perhaps are the 1940 Packard saloons which were the original vehicles chosen for the SCUs. Apparently they bought up every available Packard in the country at the time. They were used in North Africa, but were unsuitable in the longer term, hence the introduction of the Guys and the Dodges. Anyway, the book is worth getting hold of as it is a fascinating read in its own right. Incidentally, I'm not sure the Tank Museum photo shows one in British service as it still has the US Medical Corps insignia forward of the red cross and just behind the driver's door, but I am sure there are other photos of them in British, or Commonwealth, service - particularly in the Far East where the proportion of US vehicles was higher than in Europe or North Africa (apart from Jeeps, of course). Hope this helps, 10 68

There's a handy guide to the system in "Warpaint", Vol 1 by Dick Taylor with over 4 A4 pages dedicated to it and yet more covering the previous, census, lists. Basically, from 1949 to the introduction of KA et seq from 1982 particular letter pairs were reserved for either A, B or C vehicles (I generalise as, later H equipments were included, for example). So, for example, taking the "F" range, which is familiar to most of us with Land Rovers and so on, FA to FF were A vehicles in the period 1967 - 1973. Then FG to FM, less FI, were B vehicles '67 to '73 and FU to FZ were C vehicles of the same period, with others from the F series apparently not used. I'm not sure everything in the chart is 100%, for example, it shows CP as being C vehicles from 1982 onwards, whereas I seem to recall seeing CP on "construction plant" earlier than that, but, memories play tricks! 10 68

Both cracking photos of interesting vehicles, thanks for posting. Interesting to see that, although civilian side lights and indicators were fitted to the front, the military convention of fitting them one above the other rather than side by side as was civilian practice, was followed - I think, at that time, the indicators were optional extras, as were passenger side windscreen wipers - and I see the driving school Land Rover gets one but not the Land Rover issued to the CI Unit. 10 68

I don't think he needs to. He recalls using a 4x2 Land Rover during his service and quotes a VRN which was indeed a 4x2 and, as far as I can see, he's home and dry. That satisfies me and it should you, too! 10 68

According to James Taylor and Geoff Fletcher's "British Military Land Rovers", the 275 Mk 6 4x2s were indeed CL VRNs: 17CL48 to 20CL22, so yours is indeed in there. So, well remembered, but, as you were INT CORPS, I would expect nothing less! 10 68

What an excellent job you've done, many congratulations. And, as you say, it looks perfect behind your QL - a great combination. I think the light bar is inspired, I know it can be removed for shows, but, even when fitted, it doesn't look the slightest out of place. Brilliant 10 68

Yep, I remember them so clearly from the 60s - I had one as a fishing bag and so many workmen had them for their lunchboxes and flasks (remember the donkey jacket?) they were very common then. I'm sure you've thought about it, but, if you do get a mask to go in it, be careful as some of the filters were asbestos based - someone on here will recall which ones - and over the years this has degraded leaving asbestos dust in the mask itself to be breathed in by the unwary! 10 68

Those M113 hulls would be in Italy, wouldn't they? 10 68

And a Sexton by the look of it. 10 68

I hadn't considered the "105 AVREs" - in my book they weren't proper AVREs, just cheap copies and they may well have been, I'm sure they were, constructed on later hulls than Mk5s, I'm sure they were as they would have been built on the best of remaining gun tank hulls! Of course, bazooka plates from early (pre-Mk7) vehicles would have remained in service long after the Mk7s arrived in service, being on all Mk 11s for example and, I am sure, as they were frequently removed and stored, that early ones found their way onto later-build vehicles and vice versa. I hope I didn't imply that the "three-row" plates were for AVREs only as, yes, indeed, they were primarily for gun tanks. Regarding the ammunition-loading port, I couldn't say whether the size was the same for 165 and 105mm, but, looking at photos, the holes in the bazooka plates seem to be the same, but I haven't looked at the port itself. 10 68

I'm not really sure what it is you want us to say. You have offered some very interesting photos and have described them as accurately as you can with the advantage of the originals and considerable research and study. There isn't much we can add, particularly as the low resolution prevents enlarging the photos to any effect, unless we happen to know what those rails were for and, as they clearly weren't a feature of regular "in service" Centurions, we must presume, as you have, that they were there for some sort of trial - and this theory is, of course, supported by the presence of apparent civilian crew members. As for the bits sticking up over the back of the transmission deck, it is very difficult to tell what they are or what they are made of - but, in the '50s and '60s they were certainly conducting trials, including in the Persian Gulf, with Centurions wading and they had yet to "seal" the pattern for the design of the wading air intakes, so perhaps they are something to do with that - perhaps support brackets for ducting... But, perhaps they are also something to do with developing sand filters... And, it could be that the trial required the presence of people on the rear decks while the vehicle was travelling (at speed?), in which case, some sort of safety rail might be appropriate, particularly if they weren't military personnel. You mention earlier that one tank is almost certainly a Mk 8/2 or a 9. According to Simon D, (his 1980 book has very few 2RTR photos in it, you'll be pleased to know) the Mk 8/2 didn't really exist as, by the time the Mk 8s were up-gunned with L7s, they had already been up-armoured - ie were 8/1s, thus advanced straight to Mk10. And, yes, the Mk7 was the first to have the ammn loading port on the LHS, but it was also fitted to the AVRE and they were on Mk5 chassis, though, I grant you, they were developed after the Mk7 gun tank. Of course, your photo of Mk7s has to be an early one as the bazooka plates were modified during the Mk7 run to incorporate three rows of more-closely spaced staples (or Footman loops as you may call them in North America) to hold camouflage garnish. I very much enjoy this thread, it is always the first I open when it is up and running, but, forgive me for the observation which may well not be shared by others, but, if you know the answers to questions, please do say so, as the "I know, do you?" format, is a touch wearing! Probably, the best way of guaranteeing a response is to say something which is clearly wrong - that'll have everyone on to it straight away! Keep the thread going, it is fascinating and I look forward to your eventual book (with the perfect proof-reading!) 10 68

A couple of photos of a museum example in Minsk, Belarus. 10 68

Well, I think she looks absolutely lovely - a real credit to you and your four years of hard labour. And all the better for the simplicity, don't overdo the markings and "add-ons" she doesn't need them! It was a good day for gentle vintage motoring in the Forest I have no doubt. I spent a morning on my project in the garage discovering that two different batches of paint may differ markedly in colour! Ho hum! Many congratulations. 10 68