10FM68

AEC Dorchester (named after the hotel as it was so spacious and luxurious - everything's relative) was the wartime 4x4. The 6x6 came right at the end and, yes, there were 151 of them. But I don't understand why there would be LHD Matadors for South Africa as they drive on the proper side of the road! The LHD SWB AEC Milli Mk3 ACV was, I understand, only a single prototype.

Thanks for that, yes that's the one I was thinking of - from Bart Vanderveen's book, if I remember correctly. Yes, either Mk2 or 3, not 1 as I suggested - I couldn't remember. The 1945 6x6s must have remained in service until the mid 50s at least as, by then, they would only have been 10 years old and would not have done huge mileages. I agree, ref the AEC armoured cars. I was thinking mid-50s, so there would have been a gap before the arrival of Saladins. And, yes, I suspect you're also right ref storage - I bet Ludgershall was full of them. I remember travelling past Ludgershall quite often when I was a child. I used to press my nose to the car window and beg Dad to drive slowly. It was always a red letter day if one of the sheds was open! Trouble is, I can't remember what it was I used to be able to see inside! Certainly lots of Ferrets, but there must have been a lot else besides. And, of course, there was often a lot stored outside. But, Salisbury Plain was much more accessible in those days - now it is ruined - access restricted, huge great 'motorways' built across everywhere, it's lost it wild charm (and with no accessible vehicle wrecks it's a bit dull too!)

Can anyone tell me how long after the war AEC armoured cars remained in British service? I had assumed they remained until Saladins came in, but that would have meant, effectively, until the 60s which seems rather late. I presume spares were easy enough given that they were based on the Matador, but I'd like to know. Also, if they were in service, how were they distributed? Again, I can only presume, but the Corps armoured car regiment seems likely in mixed troops with DACs and Dingoes. If anyone can shed any light, I'd be grateful. Second question - can anyone tell me how long the 6x6 AEC armoured command vehicles stayed in service and, again, how were they distributed? Did they remain in 1(BR) Corps HQ, or at divisional level? There was a prototype LHD model based on the Militant Mk1, I think, but it came to nought - was that intended as a replacement? Many thanks

What year are these records from? If you know that, you may be able to find a pattern of, for example, missing days (Sundays, perhaps, or bank holidays), which might start to provide an answer.

True, I doubt there was much Wehrmacht stuff around even in the fifties and, quite frankly, the film-going public wouldn't give a damn anyway. As for British vehicles, again, you're right - they weren't thought of as being anything worth preserving so those which came onto the market and which didn't go for scrap straight away were simply run into the ground and then scrapped. The reason there are so many US vehicles around is that so many of them were gifted to European armies under the Marshall Aid Plan and they ended up in war reserve and so outlived the competition. I would still like to see more ex-British WWII vehicles, though, done up in the colours they finished their service in as DBG and colourful markings suited so many of them. I really enjoyed that video clip of the Scottish Gunner TA field regiment from the 1950s - the vehicles were really well looked after and what a collection... Quads, Albion FT15Ns, a Commer Q2, a Tilley and a host of other vehicles ... fascinating.

Well a quick glance at the 'B Card' suggests that the vehicle was delivered to 221 Base Vehicle Depot in Singapore where it spent most of its early life, either in storage or, perhaps, being used by visiting, or exercising, RE units. I say this because it wasn't signed over to a user unit during the time it was in Singapore. In 1967 it returned to the Central Vehicle Depot Ashchurch from where it was then issued to 129 Field Squadron Royal Engineers (Volunteers) which was in Hull as part of 72 (Tyne Electrical Engineers) Regiment RE (They wore distinctive collar dogs, incidentally on which the word 'Ubique' was replaced with 'Tyne'. It stayed with them through a change of unit identity number before being struck off census as a Training Aid at the Central Engineer Park which was at Long Marston. That having been said, I notice that the B Card doesn't match the data plate; the former having the ERM (Equipment Registration Mark) of 00CY02 and the latter 02DZ67, so they don't match. In other words, the paperwork you have is for a different vehicle.

Thank you both for that. I hadn't realised there was an 88 set for AFVs. I remember using the infantry 88 set as a cadet and it was pretty useless, I must say. And the website, Clive, is fascinating, thank you both again and Happy New Year to all.

Brilliant, many thanks Chris. Your answer has enabled me to look up the rest I needed to know. So the B Set would have a 2' aerial and the A Set 8' max on the move. From 1954 the RAC and RA started receiving what was later to be called Larkspur. OK, for my purposes, I shall stick to the No19 set. Again, many thanks 10 68

Here's a question, can anyone advise, please? I am looking at British armoured vehicles of the early to middle 1950s. Presumably, this is prior to the introduction of Larkspur, so first of all, are we still talking about No19 sets in, say Daimler armoured cars (DAC), Dingos, Centurions etc? If so, what aerials would they have? I presume a troop vehicle would have one (on the squadron net) while a squadron commander, command vehicle, 2ic, perhaps would have two, the squadron command net and the rear link to battalion/regiment. Is that correct? I am a bit confused as many pictures showing these vehicles during WWII seem to have two aerials a long one on the offside of the DAC turret, for example, and a shorter one on the nearside. Can anyone tell me when Larkspur was introduced because from then on most such vehicles would have had 2 radios: B47 and C42. Is that correct? I ought to know this stuff, but I don't and have forgotten much of what I did know. I'd be grateful for any kind of steer. Thanks. 10 68

The thing is, accuracy is rarely part of the equation, it's the story which matters. One has to look back at old films when, I would have assumed, WWII vehicles were more common than they are today, but there were still some shockers - particularly poorly disguised International half tracks for the Germans in Ice Cold in Alex or Chaffees for The Battle of The Bulge.. the Sioux in Where Eagles Dare ... Funnily enough, one of the most accurate for uniforms was Black Adder! The trouble is, if you have any kind of expertise in these things, you are going to notice the anomalies - I'm sure the police used to cringe at Z Cars! I haven't watched Rogue Heroes, but I can guess. And, interestingly, one of the aspects of war films they never get right is that peculiar, special relationship between officers and soldiers - it is always too stiff, too formal, over the top and with the young officer portrayed as foolish at best. But, if you read the diaries and tales written by, for example, tank crews, it is easy to see that, in reality, it was a very different, and special, relationship with a lot of humour and shared endeavour. But what I do think is sad is the scarcity of British vehicles on the scene. We seem to be swamped with US, ie foreign, stuff - largely as a result of its becoming available from continental war stocks. but there seems so little interest in, particularly post WWII British soft skin vehicles. Where are all the Bedford RLs, the Austin K9s, the Morris MRAIs Fordson Thames E3, Commer Q4 - the list goes on? People still get sniffy about Land Rovers, yet many of them are now far older than WWII vehicles were in the 80s and many lived interesting lives. And as soon as anyone gets a Jeep with a genuine British provenance which would look spectacular in DBG and BAOR markings, on goes the olive drab, the siren, the US bling and all the provenance is lost. I can't afford it, but, if I could, I would have a Jeep and mark it up post-war British - there's plenty of scope.

Sounds like the best reason in the world to me. I always liked the Wyvern - my first cap badge as an army cadet! God it looks cold and wet in that bottom picture - reminds me of those old Giles cartoons showing the Giles family off on holiday to the seaside with all their belonging! That's a fine looking Jeep as well. I do think it's a shame that more Jeeps aren't done up in British colours - particularly those which were actually in British Army service and there is so much scope from Benghazi to Burma and Bologna to Berlin., but the glamour of the US Army remains strong alas.

That is a lovely job you have done and I envy you, but, is there a reason you chose to mark it up for HQ 43 (Wessex) Division R Signals, it's just that they aren't the first people who would come to mind as users of a mortar.

I reckon you're correct with that, but the stripe won't be RAF. At that time military admin vehicles in NI were often painted in civilian colours to reduce their profile. It didn't fool the observant though as, for example, there weren't many other Bedford RLs in red with blue tilts, or blue with red tilts, Aveling Barfords in Ulsterbus blue, Hillman Hunters also in bright blue... and the buses were generally in a variety of eye-catching, but civilian schemes.

I'm no expert on R Signals practices, but it looks to me as though this vehicle would have the radios and the handsets would be remoted to the users in the command group established up to 100 yds away. The idea behind this is that, while the staff officers themselves are the users, the actual radio operators dare R Signals personnel who would be located in the RCV from where they would ensure the sets stay on frequency, conduct the necessary frequency changes, ensure the links are good and keep an eye on communications security. The users wouldn't want, or need, the radio sets themselves in their limited office space.

Goodness, good luck restoring that, I'm amazed you recognised it for what it is! I'm very jealous - I constantly keep my eye on barns and hedgerows hoping to come across such a trailer - no luck so far!

Absolutely - your thread is fascinating and I follow it with great interest. In fact, I think it is the only thread I have ever shared with my wife as she too has been amazed at the skills and dedication you and your team have shown. Wonderful stuff.

Sorry to disagree, but I do. I'm not entirely sure that any of us, as individuals have the right to 'watermark' or claim copyright over documents which have been released into the public domain by the Ministry of Defence given that they have already been paid for by the tax-payer and, if any copyright remains it belongs to the Crown. This is what the Government has to say on the matter: Copyright protects your work and stops others from using it without your permission. You get copyright protection automatically - you don’t have to apply or pay a fee. There isn’t a register of copyright works in the UK. You automatically get copyright protection when you create: original literary, dramatic, musical and artistic work, including illustration and photography original non-literary written work, such as software, web content and databases sound and music recordings film and television recordings broadcasts the layout of published editions of written, dramatic and musical works You can mark your work with the copyright symbol (©), your name and the year of creation. Whether you mark the work or not doesn’t affect the level of protection you have. I think the key words are, 'your work', 'create' and 'original'. As material released from HMG is neither your work, nor created by you nor original to you, then, frankly, you do not own the copyright and pretending otherwise with stamps or watermarks is wrong. And, anyway, what is the big issue with something which furthers our hobby being disseminated more widely? As individuals, we'll all of us here be dead within the next 30 odd years, but the hobby will remain for those who come after us and we'll all look pretty silly if material has been lost because an individual decided that something he'd come across in the course of his career, or while pursuing a hobby was lost for all time because he sat on it afraid that someone might post it elsewhere without acknowledging him. That's ridiculous. 10 68

I'm sure you're right - well done! But I'm equally sure everyone else would have understood my point, even if you missed it.

Then I suspect I too knew Herr Rheiner as it was in Corunna Barracks that I was walking one day when the RSM fell in beside me. "Where are you going Sir?" he said, "Across to the squadron office", I replied. "I don't think so", he said. "Aren't I RSM?", "No, Sir, I think you're actually on your way to the barber!" "Oh! OK RSM, I expect I am!".

Yes, it's amazing what you can do with a printer!

I remember those 100 gallon water trailers, every field troop in the Sappers was issued with one and it used to be towed behind the tp comd's Lightweight FFR. Not liked as it meant that, as there was no room on the trailer (which was heavy anyway) to stow kit, everything had to be put in the back of the Lightweight - which, with two radios in as well, wasn't exactly spacious. The Tp SSgt, meanwhile, had a 3/4 ton trailer AND the LWB Land Rover, so he was fine! (The Recce Sgt had a Ferret, so he was OK, but usually wet through)!

As early MB says, the best option is to go for colour matching from a local supplier. The alternative might be to have a look on French mil vehicle websites where the paint may be readily available. The problem is 'NATO green' is too vague a term as it is different in just about every NATO country (and that's a lot). The P4 will be in the French version of NATO green (hence OTAN) and won't be the same as British NATO green which is to BS381c 285.

Might have been this one. Taken at Westdown, SPTA possibly as late as 1972/3. Certainly I can recall one doing an engine change on a Centurion at Tilshead Lodge at around that time.

Again, thank you. I think you're probably right - it would be too early for SCC15 and it does seem close to khaki green G3. Interesting. Thanks again

Very many thanks for your prompt and comprehensive reply. Only remaining question: can I take the colour as an accurate, contemporary example of SCC15?