Current Archaeology - Otterburn Ranges.

[Rick W]

This issue of Current Archaeology sports a big fat photo of a Patton tank range wreck as its cover. An in depth look at Otterburn ranges, WW2 remains, WW1 trench sites as well as the older stuff. Well worth a look. Available at WHS, Borders etc.

www.currentarchaeology.co.uk

[Jack]

Link is broke Rick

[hardtarget]

Link is broke Rick

 

see if this link works any better ?

 

http://www.archaeology.co.uk/?s=Otterburn+&x=8&y=14

 

any one else got any pics from this range ?

[steveo578]

Yes you find several on other threads such as the Chruchill tank thread etc.

[eddy8men]

come on steve don't be shy how about a few pics to whet the appetite.

 

cheers

 

eddy

[steveo578]

eddy8men

come on steve don't be shy .....

Shy what does that mean:DJust think that photos would be better off on Range wrecks or an appropriate thread relative to the vehicle in question or rust photos will start dominating every thread.:-D.

 

There is stuff on this thread that I should address outside the subjects of wrecks -if I get around to it.

 

Steve

[eddy8men]

"rust photo's will start dominating every thread"

 

i dream of that day

 

eddy

[steveo578]

Rust like dry rot, tooth decay and Reality Shows just keep spreading if you don't stop it early:-D

[Rick W]

Strictly Gone Rusty.:-)

[steveo578]

Unfortunately apart for the précis of both CA232 articles at www.archaeology.co.uk/ articles/ from-barrow-to-bunker-archaeology-on-the-otterburn-training-area.htm and

www.archaeology.co.uk/articles/ its-a-long-long-way-to-tipperary-the-archaeology-of-the-great-war-at-otterburn.htm

there seems to be no way of accessing this site fully without making a fairly large financial commitment, which is surprising considering the web counter shows a regular 70-90 guests accessing the site.

 

However not to be defeated by the internet and as it was the weekend I went to my city library with negative result- they don't subscribe. Again not to be beaten and having access to an academic account the following week I requested access only to find the uni doesn't subscribe. As the uni has a major archaeology department, one of the T/As suggested that the reason they don’t subscribe is probably down to;-

1). the subscription is too expensive or

2). the academic body does consider the publication of sufficient academic rigor.

3) Combination of 1 and 2.

 

With regard to the articles themselves I have some reservations, firstly with regard to

Barrow to Bunker;

contrary to the article since 2002 the current OTA staff has imposed a much tighter control on public access, putting areas such as the “Stone in the Mire” and “Wilkwood” out of bounds –“No access except on authorised business”. In effect general access is confined to those roads that are designated public rights of way between farms currently on the reservation.

 

Historically military training in the area goes back almost two millennia to numerous roman training camps within the current OTA boundary notably at Chew Green (referred to by Roman soldiery as “Worlds End” so nothing new there then:-)). In addition just beyond the northern boundary a roman siege training area is located at Woden Law, earthworks and a fortlet at Dormount hope on the approximate line of Dear Street. During WW2 the training area was more extensive than the current OTA with active areas to the north and east of the Coquet river- with several pill boxes still extant along with several near bye sites to the south east which may have originally built to protect the then Home Chain site at Ottercops.

 

With regard to

its-a-long-long-way-to-tipperary-the-archaeology-of-the-great-war-at-otterburn.

These trench systems were found by the former OTA range officer who also alerted Bovington of the existence of the A11 and Churchill 3 which were recovered in the late 1980s. In all honesty the University and English Heritage etc showed little interest in anything other than Roman and Medieval settlements prior to 1996 –indeed EHs representative was somewhat prissy with regard to the removal of the Red Cavalier even though it had followed the same track line used for its placement 50 years previously and therefore minimised damage to the Roman camp boundary where it had been placed.

 

Information on the Army in the Great War is difficult to come by as anyone who has had involvement with the Western Front association will attest but the expectation of finding grenade fragments, expended rounds and discarded equipment of the Great War I regard as somewhat naïve, grenade training assuming trainees got any live grenade training, would be done on a dedicated throwing area similar to the later grenade throwing area at Carrick Height on the southern OTA impact area which has now been cleared and its OP tower demolished. Regarding expended rounds until recently and certainly in the days of bolt action weapons there was a requirement to “police” rounds. Discarded equipment in training is again unlikely at a time when the authorities deducted a 1 shilling blanket charge from a soldiers assets in the event of a death, loose kit in training and a squadie would certainly face a COs award. In effect the article seems to confuse what would be expected in an active service trench and that in training. As an aside there are areas near the Hopefoot road (near the Otterburn Camp) between the encampment area and the homestead settlement that could be remnants of trench systems- but could be from any era. As regard shell damage in WW2 the OTA used 18pdr field guns leading to possibilities of confusion for example there were numerous expended 18pdr shrapnel shells in the Redesdale impact area at Woolbist law. They also may have had 60pdr as I found what was probably a 60pdr in an embankment about 1/2km north east of the Sills site -it was blown in place as its promimity to a public road and an impending public holiday may have put people at risk.

 

The location of the WW1 trench training area is fairly easy to find on Google possibly because it seems to have been photographed in winter, the overview shows the relative position of the mobile target system on Bushman road which is north of Redesdale camp and again north of Siloans farm. With the Centurion Mk3(5) LR 07ZR97 target on the east side of the road.

To the east between the visible trench works and the edge of the old parachutist drop zone alocation DZ1A are a number of field marking which could be other WW1 structures.

 

Steve

Edited October 6, 2010 by steveo578
grammar

[Rick W]

Good info Steve.

[steveo578]

thanks Rick :thumbsup:

 

 

Stock photo of the Bushmans road Cent mk5 LR I tried to upload it on the previous post but Firefox was letting me down as usual.

 

Steve

[No Signals]

 

 

Information on the Army in the Great War is difficult to come by as anyone who has had involvement with the Western Front association will attest but the expectation of finding grenade fragments, expended rounds and discarded equipment of the Great War I regard as somewhat naïve, grenade training assuming trainees got any live grenade training, would be done on a dedicated throwing area similar to the later grenade throwing area at Carrick Height on the southern OTA impact area which has now been cleared and its OP tower demolished.

Steve

 

Got to state straight out that I know nothing about the WW1training on the area refered to and don't know whether the WW1 units training there were regulars or volunteers, but on the training area of my local 'Pals' Battalions there has been uncovered extensive evidence of grenade training. Far more than was expected. Plus a few bits of lost small kit. Whether there was a different 'system' for the volunteers compared to the regulars I dont know. The area, just fields and woodland with a trench system- nothing special, was methodically investigated and plotted by a knowledgeable historian with a metal detector some time ago. I am trying to persuade him to publish his results. The results of his other investigations on local 'temporary' WW2 training areas are fascinating, and impressively thorough. But that is another thread in itself!