Slr

[chevpol]

ok, this is a question to all you knowledgable people out there!!!!

 

When was the SLR phased out? I know that 68 pattern dpm was still in use way after 85 patt was introduced, and that 58 patt webbing was used with the SA80, but when was the SLR last used? and with whom?

 

Will await the answers!!!

 

Mark :cool:

[Richard Farrant]

When was the SLR phased out? ... when was the SLR last used?

 

 

All I can say is that after the SA80 went in to service, I was involved in overhauling SLR's by the hundreds and that was in 1989, I'm sure. Think they were going into reserve.

[Lord Burley]

Quite a few SLR,s were used during the first Gulf war. A lot were operated by the RAF regiment,along with Sterling SMG,s by the RMP.

[ferretfixer]

ok, this is a question to all you knowledgable people out there!!!!

 

When was the SLR phased out? I know that 68 pattern dpm was still in use way after 85 patt was introduced, and that 58 patt webbing was used with the SA80, but when was the SLR last used? and with whom?

 

Will await the answers!!!

 

Mark :cool:

 

I was involved in the trials for the original 4.85mm Pre-Service variant in 1982-3 at the school of infantry in Warminster.

After MANY suggestions & mods it went to production & BEGAN entering Service in 1985. The L1A1 (SLR) Rilfle, Sterling L2A3 SMG & L4A4 Bren Gun continued to serve alongside until phased out of Service.

 

The Complete usage of the First SA80 (L85A1) & LSW (L86A1) became the norm in 1988.

Richard is correct with regards the SLR's he worked on. They would have gone into war Reserve, and SOME were later sold/ distributed as 'Assistance' packages to 'Friendly' nations. Sierra Leone being a prime example. :sweat:

As far as I can establish, NO British Army L2A3 SMG's have EVER been released & would have gone into War Reserve. :coffee:

[Redcap]

If it helps any, my old RMP(v) Coy were amongst the first non-Infantry TA units in LonDist to re-equip with the L85A1, at which point we back squadded all our SMGs, LMGs, and the few SLRs we had for the attached cap badges, and that was, IIRC, in 1994.

[ferretfixer]

If it helps any, my old RMP(v) Coy were amongst the first non-Infantry TA units in LonDist to re-equip with the L85A1, at which point we back squadded all our SMGs, LMGs, and the few SLRs we had for the attached cap badges, and that was, IIRC, in 1994.

 

Blimey Roger, You really were at the back of the stores isssues!

Just shows how seriously they took 'The Army Welfare Service'! ....:cool2::coffee: (Only joking!)

[Lord Burley]

I was involved in the trials for the original 4.85mm Pre-Service variant in 1982-3 at the school of infantry in Warminster.

After MANY suggestions & mods it went to production & BEGAN entering Service in 1985. The L1A1 (SLR) Rilfle, Sterling L2A3 SMG & L4A4 Bren Gun continued to serve alongside until phased out of Service.

 

The Complete usage of the First SA80 (L85A1) & LSW (L86A1) became the norm in 1988.

Richard is correct with regards the SLR's he worked on. They would have gone into war Reserve, and SOME were later sold/ distributed as 'Assistance' packages to 'Friendly' nations. Sierra Leone being a prime example. :sweat:

As far as I can establish, NO British Army L2A3 SMG's have EVER been released & would have gone into War Reserve. :coffee:

The actual development work of the SA-80 stems back quite a few years with the development of the EM-1 which fire a 7mm cartridge. This was shelved and work begun on another bull-pup design in the late 60,s designated the XL64E5. Which i believe ferretfixer is what you would have worked on?. Did it have all black plastic furniture?.

 

A very early example of this can be seen in an episode of the "Proffesionals" circa 1977. The Martin Shaw charachter "Doyle" can be seen using one during the practice clearance of a house in a mock up siege rescue attempt.

 

How the production staff managed to secure one of these during the development stage is a mystery to many.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

.How the production staff managed to secure one of these during the development stage is a mystery to many.

And why you were watching it is another :-D

[ferretfixer]

The actual development work of the SA-80 stems back quite a few years with the development of the EM-1 which fire a 7mm cartridge. This was shelved and work begun on another bull-pup design in the late 60,s designated the XL64E5. Which i believe ferretfixer is what you would have worked on?. Did it have all black plastic furniture?.

 

A very early example of this can be seen in an episode of the "Proffesionals" circa 1977. The Martin Shaw charachter "Doyle" can be seen using one during the practice clearance of a house in a mock up siege rescue attempt.

 

How the production staff managed to secure one of these during the development stage is a mystery to many.

 

No. The variants I worked on were the trials versions of the Pre-Production L85A1. Later on, about a year later,belive it or not. I actually found the lower half of a trigger mecanisem with the XL serial number on it.In a sandbag of empty brass! How the hell did that get in there?? Photo's of the complete weapon appeared later in a specialist book on the Rifle. Needless to say, the componat was cut up with a hacksaw VERY quickly & disposed of as weapon scrap! What would that be worth today! :shake:

[Lord Burley]

 

No. The variants I worked on were the trials versions of the Pre-Production L85A1. Later on, about a year later,belive it or not. I actually found the lower half of a trigger mecanisem with the XL serial number on it.In a sandbag of empty brass! How the hell did that get in there?? Photo's of the complete weapon appeared later in a specialist book on the Rifle. Needless to say, the componat was cut up with a hacksaw VERY quickly & disposed of as weapon scrap! What would that be worth today! :shake:

Thanks for the info:thumbsup:

[Lord Burley]

 

And why you were watching it is another :-D

They still stack up well today compared with the politicly correct s**t that is on the box now.

[Redcap]

Blimey Roger, You really were at the back of the stores isssues!

Just shows how seriously they took 'The Army Welfare Service'! ....:cool2::coffee: (Only joking!)

 

Tell me about it :evil:

 

We even had to take special training with the London Regiment in order to qualify on the damn thing so that we (the five (4 + 1 Res) of us that were in the competition shooting team, I mean) could take part in Ex Cop Shoot '93, which was a month or so before we were due to receive the rifles!

 

I'm told the brass made it up to us after I left the company, mind. Apparently my old Coy were the first in the TA to get Wolf Landies after all the regs had received theirs :rofl:

[ferretfixer]

Thanks for the info:thumbsup:

 

No Probs, A Pleasure! :yay:

[ArtistsRifles]

FWIW - in the middish Seventies Stirling Armaments did some protype work on a bullpup design intended as a proposed replacement for the SLR. We did some of the test firing and trials for them down on the old Rainham ranges.. I believe when Stirling folded all the info was passed across to the RSAF and found it's way into the SA-80. I know we had issued with mag releases which became a "feature" of the Mk 1 SA-80....

 

Talking about this really makes me feel old now!!! :cry: :cry:

[ferretfixer]

FWIW - in the middish Seventies Stirling Armaments did some protype work on a bullpup design intended as a proposed replacement for the SLR. We did some of the test firing and trials for them down on the old Rainham ranges.. I believe when Stirling folded all the info was passed across to the RSAF and found it's way into the SA-80. I know we had issued with mag releases which became a "feature" of the Mk 1 SA-80....

 

Talking about this really makes me feel old now!!! :cry: :cry:

 

Yes they made a 'Budget' assualt rifle also. I belive only one far Eastern country adopted it. I knew the Design Engineer Frank Walters very well as a personal friend from Sterlings. Laent a lot of VERY interesting stuff about Sterlings & the original designer Bill Patchett. A lesser known fact was theat Styerling had a Revolver design in the board, but they folded before it got any further than a prototype.

Sterlings were bought and asset stripped by 'British Waste-of-space'! :-(

[AlienFTM]

As late as 1989, there was a stated MOD policy that the SA80 would never be adopted by certain units.

 

I was a sergeant at RAPC Worthy Down, serving out my time. Apart from Recruit and Apprentice Training, Worthy Down consisted of the RAPC Computer Centre (whence the army was paid and where I worked), the Command Pay Office UKLF, Professional and Technical Training Wings and the Corps Depot.

 

We had been designated one of the units that would never adopt SA80 to save the cost of a few rifles and we were to remain on SLR / SMG in perpetuity. Then somebody pointed out to the powers that while almost all of the departments listed had no need whatever to adopt SA80, their were a few things that had clearly escaped the corporate their minds.

 

1. Recruits and apprentices would very soon find themselves serving with units where there was only the SA80, for which they were to receive no recruit / apprentice training.

 

2. Computer Centre, CPO UKLF, PTW and Depot were almost exclusively manned by Sergeants and above and civil servants; recruits and apprentices did not get to stag on on guard duty until very late in their training. This meant that the Toms on guard came almost exclusively from TTW. TTW consisted of RAPC-badged personnel learning basic RAPC technical skills (calculating pay etc), non-RAPC-badged personnel in the process of transferring into the RAPC and attendees from the whole army on for example All-Arms Clerks courses.

 

It didn't take a genius to work out that once the rest of the army stopped learning about SLR /SMG, there's be a fundamental dichotomy where most of the people on Worthy Down strength were untrained on any of the weapons available to them. At that time, the main real threat on the UK mainland was from terrorism, and we regularly trained to change from an admin to a combat role to protect some of the army's major assets. And guards were carrying live rounds. Training helped.

 

By the time I walked out of the gates for the last time in July 1989, they had finally realised they were living in a dream world and Worthy Down WAS going eventually to receive SA80s.

 

By 1988 there were six SA80s in the armoury, for the sole benefit of non-SLR-trained All-Arms clerks stagging on. In December 1988 I was invited to attend an SA80 conversion course at Pirbright, my last ever army course. In April 1989 I was asked to represent the RAPC at Corpsaam (all corps skill-at-arms meeting) at Ash near Aldershot. I was actually busy preparing my area of responsibility over to my replacement and the office was down staff (I do remember the WO2 had been invited to join the UN force in Angola or Namibia - I think the latter) and tried to swerve out of it. I told the 2IC of the computer centre that I was only prepared to participate in Corpsaam if I might take an SA80, because I had now been trained on it and this was my only chance ever to fire it. Since all the SA80s were earmarked for the guard, I was confident my request would be declined. The QM called my bluff. Didn't help. You know what they say: you can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. I was out of all competitions by Wednesday lunchtime and back at my desk Thursday morning. I guess I should have taken an SLR. Never mind.

 

I have seen a similar thread on ARRSE. There are people there who claim to have taken SLR on Op Granby, then been attached to a unit with SA80 or vice versa and having to exchange part-way through the operation. Still Granby has a place in history. As far as I know a 16/5L Scorpion's kill of an Iraqi T55 is the only time a Scorpion ever got the chance to destroy an enemy tank in combat.

[ferretfixer]

As late as 1989, there was a stated MOD policy that the SA80 would never be adopted by certain units.

 

I was a sergeant at RAPC Worthy Down, serving out my time. Apart from Recruit and Apprentice Training, Worthy Down consisted of the RAPC Computer Centre (whence the army was paid and where I worked), the Command Pay Office UKLF, Professional and Technical Training Wings and the Corps Depot.

 

We had been designated one of the units that would never adopt SA80 to save the cost of a few rifles and we were to remain on SLR / SMG in perpetuity. Then somebody pointed out to the powers that while almost all of the departments listed had no need whatever to adopt SA80, their were a few things that had clearly escaped the corporate their minds.

 

1. Recruits and apprentices would very soon find themselves serving with units where there was only the SA80, for which they were to receive no recruit / apprentice training.

 

2. Computer Centre, CPO UKLF, PTW and Depot were almost exclusively manned by Sergeants and above and civil servants; recruits and apprentices did not get to stag on on guard duty until very late in their training. This meant that the Toms on guard came almost exclusively from TTW. TTW consisted of RAPC-badged personnel learning basic RAPC technical skills (calculating pay etc), non-RAPC-badged personnel in the process of transferring into the RAPC and attendees from the whole army on for example All-Arms Clerks courses.

 

It didn't take a genius to work out that once the rest of the army stopped learning about SLR /SMG, there's be a fundamental dichotomy where most of the people on Worthy Down strength were untrained on any of the weapons available to them. At that time, the main real threat on the UK mainland was from terrorism, and we regularly trained to change from an admin to a combat role to protect some of the army's major assets. And guards were carrying live rounds. Training helped.

 

By the time I walked out of the gates for the last time in July 1989, they had finally realised they were living in a dream world and Worthy Down WAS going eventually to receive SA80s.

 

By 1988 there were six SA80s in the armoury, for the sole benefit of non-SLR-trained All-Arms clerks stagging on. In December 1988 I was invited to attend an SA80 conversion course at Pirbright, my last ever army course. In April 1989 I was asked to represent the RAPC at Corpsaam (all corps skill-at-arms meeting) at Ash near Aldershot. I was actually busy preparing my area of responsibility over to my replacement and the office was down staff (I do remember the WO2 had been invited to join the UN force in Angola or Namibia - I think the latter) and tried to swerve out of it. I told the 2IC of the computer centre that I was only prepared to participate in Corpsaam if I might take an SA80, because I had now been trained on it and this was my only chance ever to fire it. Since all the SA80s were earmarked for the guard, I was confident my request would be declined. The QM called my bluff. Didn't help. You know what they say: you can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. I was out of all competitions by Wednesday lunchtime and back at my desk Thursday morning. I guess I should have taken an SLR. Never mind.

 

I have seen a similar thread on ARRSE. There are people there who claim to have taken SLR on Op Granby, then been attached to a unit with SA80 or vice versa and having to exchange part-way through the operation. Still Granby has a place in history. As far as I know a 16/5L Scorpion's kill of an Iraqi T55 is the only time a Scorpion ever got the chance to destroy an enemy tank in combat.

 

A most interesting tale! I have never heard of that at all. It would NEVER have worked out anyway. The pure logistics level alone would have crippled keeping different weapons alongside 'Standard' issue items. There is always a Honeymoon period of changeover with any equipment. OP Granby was a typical example of that. Eventually, the spares situation would have rendered SLR's & SMG's redundant. When the Military buys in a new equipment. It also gets a 'spares package' for the next ten years (Approx) & adjusts the indent need as appropriate. Also, as you clearly state, the training problem of familiarity with equipment would have caused chaos! :argh: As the Services trim thier stores & outgoings to a minimum for cost level. The extra items deemed 'Not Standard Issue', would have been pulled sooner rather than later. And now with the Lovely Health & Safety executive 'Police' crawling over everything imaginable. They would have added to the weight of an argumant against keeping extra weapons/ equipment. :-(

 

I know personally of a particular Civilian staff member at Donnington Stores Depot. Who, after trawling through weeks of NSN's to see what had not 'Moved' for a long time. Was then tasked with removing NSN numbered equipment for disposal/ distruction. seeing a number which had had no movement for MANY years (To be fair) saw it was a Weapon item & obviously as it had not been indented for. Was not needed. :nono:

It was an L8 rifle. The original Troop Trials Rifles of a 7.62mm conversion of the old No.4 lee Enfield.(Two Hundered & fifty of them!) the trials were not a success & the weapons were returned & put into storage. Can you imagine the revenue that COULD have been recouped by the legal sale of the Rifles to the Shooting & collecting comunity? :shocked: All went for distruction & were cut up! :argh:

Also seen Brand new out of the Wrapping SMG's being Guillotined for scrap in the workshop next door. Civvys were refurbishing old ones to new spec. It kept the staff in employment you see........:coffee:

The old maxim, 'Saving Pennies & wasting thousands really did apply here! :??? Very sad indeed...........:-(

[recymech66]

ok, this is a question to all you knowledgable people out there!!!!

 

When was the SLR phased out? I know that 68 pattern dpm was still in use way after 85 patt was introduced, and that 58 patt webbing was used with the SA80, but when was the SLR last used? and with whom?

 

Will await the answers!!!

 

Mark :cool:

 

I did Basic in 1989 with SLR. SA80 in use with most units during Op Granby but SLR still used, we got SA80 1990 IIRC. :-D