Jimh Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Go on then. I'll admit to my inexperience on this matter. Discuss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 radiomike7 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The main use however is as I said to enable easy (easier!) gearchanging, and people should be aware of its correct use. For easy I would substitute quicker, important when changing up on a hill with a heavy load. The second use is to stop the gearbox rotating when selecting a gear from stationary to prevent damage to the dog clutches. This is particulary important with a twin plate clutch which tends to drag more than a single plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 gritineye Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 For easy I would substitute quicker, important when changing up on a hill with a heavy load. The second use is to stop the gearbox rotating when selecting a gear from stationary to prevent damage to the dog clutches. This is particulary important with a twin plate clutch which tends to drag more than a single plate. I agree with that Mike, and I will get one fitted to my L10, especially for the second use, I sometimes have to switch off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Brooky Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 For easy I would substitute quicker, important when changing up on a hill with a heavy load. The second use is to stop the gearbox rotating when selecting a gear from stationary to prevent damage to the dog clutches. This is particulary important with a twin plate clutch which tends to drag more than a single plate. I agree, I think I made that point in an earlier post but said something along the lines of a quicker change is possible due to road speed not being lost whilst waiting for engine revs to drop, same thing really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 gritineye Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Just found this in a book I had forgotten I had, Mechanical training volume 11 general mechanical principles of tracked and wheeled vehicles 1953, a snappy title! clutch brake training.PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Swill1952xs Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Just found this in a book I had forgotten I had, Mechanical training volume 11 general mechanical principles of tracked and wheeled vehicles 1953, a snappy title! The gear selection advice sounds more applicable to a petrol engined version of the subject vehicle. Diesel engines often produce their maximum torque at lower engine revs than a petrol. Use of the clutch brake on up changes may apply to a higher revving petrol where you could rev it to nearly full throttle before you change gear, (To get max torque) and would then have the problem of slowing the clutch plate to engage the next gear. Most of the older diesels rev to about 1800 to 2000 rpm. On vehicles like this you wouldn't need to rev it more than 14-1500 before you change gear, as it would have the torque to pull the next gear up. Similarly when pulling hard, unlike the petrol version where you would need to keep the revs up; the diesels revs can drop as low as 1000 rpm before you change down as they have the torque to do this. With a diesel engine you wouldn't use the clutch brake to either change up or down. (Do it on a Fuller box and you will snap the drive lugs off the brake disc as soon as you attempt it) The ERF with the Perkins Eagle that I drive has a clutch brake. The torquey engine revs to 2000, you change up at 1700 absolute max, and change down at 11-1200 when the turbo starts to drop pressure. The first three gears can be changed without double de-clutching to keep the power up. (All up weight 40 tonnes) after that you can still do some very quick upchanges by double declutching. Coming down through the box you allow the engine revs to drop to about 1200 before changing down, otherwise the next gear down will have the engine revving its nuts off and be hard to engage. Many years ago the company I worked for had a Pioneer. I drove it doing HGV recovery over a six month period, didn't know it had a clutch brake, or if it did, it didn't work, and had no problems changing up or down through the box once I got used to the gate. Trust me.............:cool2: I've worked on trucks for nearly forty years (I don't know everything though) learned to drive on a "crash box" Leyland Chieftain and now a professional driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Perkins Eagle? what happened to RR eagle ,all ours were RR badged.Hard to start in the cold smokey old buggers wasnt impressed,prefered our AECs.We had Perkins V8s no head gaskets if i remember correctly,Then Ford put there Rocker cover on them and called them Fords.:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Perkins Eagle? what happened to RR eagle ,all ours were RR badged.Hard to start in the cold smokey old buggers wasnt impressed,prefered our AECs.We had Perkins V8s no head gaskets if i remember correctly,Then Ford put there Rocker cover on them and called them Fords.:-D Perkins bought out Rolls Royce Diesels. Once they got involved, the Eagle was vastly improved with the Perkins Eagle 350, in S26 and Leyland DROPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Swill1952xs Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Perkins Eagle? what happened to RR eagle ,all ours were RR badged.Hard to start in the cold smokey old buggers wasnt impressed,prefered our AECs.We had Perkins V8s no head gaskets if i remember correctly,Then Ford put there Rocker cover on them and called them Fords.:-D Bloo*y Rolls Royce sold their engine plant off to Perkins destroying the status of the engine overnight. Still a super engine, mine (My ERF at work) starts perfectly no matter how cold, and never smokes from cold either. Puffs a bit of black before the turbo pressure builds up on the upchanges, but only momentarily. Perkins V8's.............. yeeeeeeuk..........nasty piece of junk. Sound nice, always run cold, gutless and usually drink oil. I had two new ones back in the seventies in Ford artics and apart from the sound, I wasn't impressed. Strange about Ford insisting on their name on the rocker covers of the PV8 because they never did it on the Cummins V8........ Wierd. :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Bloo*y Rolls Royce sold their engine plant off to Perkins destroying the status of the engine overnight. Now belongs to Caterpillar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 radiomike7 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Bloo*y Rolls Royce sold their engine plant off to Perkins Totally off topic, but who remembers what was previously produced at the Rolls diesel engine plant?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 gritineye Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) . Do it on a Fuller box and you will snap the drive lugs off the brake disc as soon as you attempt it This is exactly why I have no clutch brake fitted to my Cummins in Forceful, it had been already been chewed off when I got it and I never thought I'd need one, but it is almost impossible to get in gear stationary when the box is hot. The damage to the shaft from the gearbox box as found, not very clear because of the shadow, but there is a worn groove round it and the slot is damaged. Edited March 16, 2009 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Stormin Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Totally off topic, but who remembers what was previously produced at the Rolls diesel engine plant?? I know the Manchester marine diesel plant used to be Crossley motors, before Rolls took them over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 radiomike7 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I know the Manchester marine diesel plant used to be Crossley motors, before Rolls took them over. No, we are talking about Shrewsbury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 xsk460 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Totally off topic, but who remembers what was previously produced at the Rolls diesel engine plant?? Was it not a foundry prior to 'OIL ENGINE' production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 xsk460 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Sorry that was a previous works- Shrewsbury.... Sentinel Steam-Wagon Works???:readbook: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 xsk460 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Clan Foundry, Belper, was the birthplace of the Rolls oil engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 radiomike7 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Sorry that was a previous works- Shrewsbury.... Sentinel Steam-Wagon Works???:readbook: That's the one :yay: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Swill1952xs Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 This is exactly why I have no clutch brake fitted to my Cummins in Forceful, it had been already been chewed off when I got it and I never thought I'd need one, but it is almost impossible to get in gear stationary when the box is hot. The damage to the shaft from the gearbox box as found, not very clear because of the shadow, but there is a worn groove round it and the slot is damaged. Presumably you've fitted a new shaft, but not a new clutch brake. If you fit a new brake disc you will have a perfectly adequate clutch brake, and will overcome any problems regarding engaging gears from standstill. You must make sure though that you only use it for initial engagement, and never push the clutch right to the stop when the vehicle is rolling with a gear engaged, or the same will happen again. Presumably also yours is a puller clutch. The correct adjustment for this clutch with the clutch pedal at rest is 1/2" between the release bearing and the gearbox extension housing. (With the brake disc pushed towards the release bearing) If your clutch is a manually adjusted version; adjustment is made on some of them by removing a locking tab from the clutch cover, and getting someone to hold the clutch pedal down, and rotating the internal castellated ring inside the clutch cover. Turning it clockwise a few notches; moves the release bearing towards the gearbox. There is a version of this clutch with automatic adjustment, but if it has a single forked tag with one bolt in it; then it is manual adjust. I have a page on it at work with a proper explanation of the two types of adjustment. On this type of clutch; if the gap is excessive, you may experience clutch slip too. Another version depending on the clutch manufacturer has a threaded tube the release bearing pushes on. Closest to the clutch cover, on this threaded tube, is a notched ring, which is a locking ring. Undo the locking ring with a long bar and a hammer and with the clutch at rest; unwind the threaded tube until there is half an inch clearance as with the other type. These are a lot easier to adjust. If you simply fit a new brake disc, it will transform driving your old dear to the point that you wont bother with a car for shopping, because you will prefer to drive the Scammell. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 radiomike7 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 That is spot on Will, I have a clever bit of kit that bolts on in place of the adjuster and makes turning the ring easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 gritineye Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have the last type of adjustment, thanks for the info, pm sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Swill1952xs Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 That is spot on Will, I have a clever bit of kit that bolts on in place of the adjuster and makes turning the ring easier. Turning the adjuster ring can be a real pain when the thread gets full of dust, so no doubt thats where the special tool comes in handy. Lucky you...... have you got a special tool that stops all the crap dropping on your face when you manually adjust the clutch........ :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 gritineye Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Lucky you...... have you got a special tool that stops all the crap dropping on your face when you manually adjust the clutch........ :-D Now you know why I'm Gritineye. :coffee: I have fitted my bell housing upside down (access hole up) to prevent this problem happening. Edited March 17, 2009 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 rbrtcrowther Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 It may sound funny, but has anyone fitted a hand operated clutch brake? (Brake handel on gear leaver with bowden cable to brake) Definatley no danger of accedentel braking and very handy when engaging a gear at rest. Having seen some of the things you've created, sorting out a clutch brake system would seem easy.:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Jimh
Go on then. I'll admit to my inexperience on this matter.
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