grumpygit1974 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Hello all I have got a one of the above gennys - i swaped it a few years ago for something at a show with a mate he said it was a worker and i dont dought him. But I can't get it started!! i have taken out the spark plug and cleaned it up, i have got fuel and when i pull the starting cord with the spark plug out i can smell petrol coming from the spark plug hole if you know what i mean, so i am farly sure that it if not a fuel problem (but i might be wrong). But i cant get a spark! i took the side of and replaced some of the wires going to the starter switch but still no spark!. before i attack it again tommorrow any one got anyideas as to where to start or what ti check??. I guess the sparking system worked the same way as a petrol lawnmower? so perhaps the contacts in side need a clean up? picture below if i have done it correctly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Hi Grumpygit, I remember those gennys, when I worked for the army, our electrician called them Forskine. Now the engine is a Villiers, being made around 1970's I think, they were marked as a Norton Villiers and am pretty sure they were electronic ignition, so there will not be points inside the flywheel. I could be wrong and stand to be corrected, but that is what my memory is telling me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 What is the official designation of it? I might have the EMERs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 What is the official designation of it? I might have the EMERs. Think it was an AESP Generating Set, Gasoline, 1.0Kva, Erskine X7/6115-99-209-4550 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Richard probably not an AESP, as X2/6115-99-209-4550 was issued with a CES as Army Code No.39630 rather than part of an AESP structure. I can't be certain (because I can't find the EMER at the moment) but I think it corresponds to POWER C 502/17. I have got that somewhere and it covers Field & Base Repairs, which could be useful in sorting the fault out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Here is a page from the EMER As you can see there is a catch, this EMER covers all the Erskine items, but the engine itself is a Villiers & that is covered in EMER POWER S 470/2 - S 479/2 ........unfortunately I don't think I have it unless I have it as a FEMER. Edited December 5, 2008 by fv1609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpygit1974 Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 hello blimy less than 24hours and i have some answers!!, from the EMER you have posted it appears not to have electronic ignition. I will have a look this afternoon and report back! thanks everyone!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Erskine produced two designations of similar generators in close succession (as the NSNs are very close) this EMER relates to 6115-99-209-3481 but what you have apparently is 6115-99-209-4550 - but can you check that? If you did happen to have a different or improved starter that would on show up as variation on the EMER covering the engine, the Erskine EMER would probably remain the same. Or it may be that one NSN is for the generator itself & the other for the "generator c/w repair kit" which the EMER quotes. As the various indexes POWER A 001 over many years don't list any other EMERs for the generator or the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 If its a villiers engine, there is a plastic screw collar that carries the ignition lead into the engine case, in the end of that collar is a spring and brass contact which pushes against a metal contact on the coil of the magneto, they are good at breaking down at this point, i modified a villiers by carefully soldering the copper ignition cable directly to the coil, never had a problem with it afterwards. The points could be worn as well of course, i have some villiers parts somewhere if i can find them, may have a spare coil and points, i cant remember if i passed them on with the Allan Scythe i used to have. PM me once you establish what is up, probably just needs a clean and adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) hello blimy less than 24hours and i have some answers!!, from the EMER you have posted it appears not to have electronic ignition. Yes, I see what you are thinking.........flywheel magneto........but points were done away with on some of these types of engines and a small module used in place. I am only going on dim memory of one of these particular gennys giving trouble, but check what Adam says first. I was not sure there was an actual EMER for the Villiers F15 engine, I recollect our technical library had the makers handbook, hence why I thought it was under an AESP. Edited December 5, 2008 by Richard Farrant spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpygit1974 Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 hello all Got the chance to have a look at it again today - bloody chrismas shopping getting inthe way! this is what i found, i have cleaned out the points and roughed up/cleaned up the flywheel but still no spark!! what else should i be looking for/checking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I see my memory has deceived me here :-(.......so you do have points. Make sure the points are clean, no bits of grit from sandpaper between them, pass a clean piece of paper through them to check. Then I would try another spark plug before getting any deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 That is a slightly different setup to the villiers i had but it is pretty much the same thing, is the ignition lead making a good contact with coil/ignition module? Also the magnets in the other side of the fly wheel de-magnetise, giving a weaker charge, there is a way to re-magnetise them which escapes my memory, im pretty certain if you do a search on villiers engines it will become apparent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpygit1974 Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 I see my memory has deceived me here :-(.......so you do have points. Make sure the points are clean, no bits of grit from sandpaper between them, pass a clean piece of paper through them to check. Then I would try another spark plug before getting any deeper. Ok more om it today! as the new spark plug turned up - fitted it but still no spark!! I took off the ignition unit compleat with the points and HT lead on it. it looks like some one has done some modifications! soldering new/replacement wires on! I am wondering if the HT lead needs replacing but i cant see hpw to remove it? it looks like the base plate and the HT lead is all one unit?? can any one comfirm this? Any one give me any more ideas as to what to look for next??? or where to get parts from??? pictures attached of the Modifications!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I cant quite tell from the picture as it is side on, but does the ignition module look anything like the pictures from the Seagull Outboard engine link below, they used villiers engines with variations of ignition types. http://www.seagullparts.co.uk/ignition2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Found this which looks like your ignition system at the following link: www.villiersparts.co.uk/ignition.html Your engine looks like its short of a condensor! Edited January 4, 2009 by Adam Elsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Just been playing with my old Chore Horse, the ignition is similar, you are definitley missing a condenser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) This is the piece of kit that i had that led to the interest in Villiers engines. Its an Allen Scythe model TS, it had a yard wide reciprocating knife blade cutter, and also came with a snow plough blade for winter, it was really heavy and would haul you around if you let it, an amusing piece of equipment that used 2 stroke oil at the ratio of 1/2 pint to the gallon of petrol! bought at a farm auction as a non runner for bugger all, had it working in an afternoon and used it to blitz the horses paddock and clear snow for a couple of winters and sold it to a collector for an awful lot more than what i paid for it!!! Mine had a lovely old oily well used/maintained patinated look, and it had speedway bikes knobbly tyres for the sporty ground maintenance man types! Croc and i even contemplated extreme agricutural equipment snow racing, remove the blade dont fit the snow plow, put on the ski's and open up the Allen full chat, getting it to pull you through the snow at a reasonable rate of knots, even had a mono ski design for the front of the machine, and got hold of a villiers lighting coil so it could have a 6v lamp on the front........ah the memories! Edited January 6, 2009 by Adam Elsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Its an Allen Scythe model TS, an amusing piece of equipment that used 2 stroke oil at the ratio of 1/2 pint to the gallon of petrol! 16:1 ratio petrol/oil mix, same as my Bantam many years ago :shake: As a child I remember the council using these on the verges. Apparantly they had a habit of dropping into gear if left in neutral with the engine running.........you can just imagine one of these chasing the operator! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 16:1 ratio petrol/oil mix, same as my Bantam many years ago :shake: As a child I remember the council using these on the verges. Apparantly they had a habit of dropping into gear if left in neutral with the engine running.........you can just imagine one of these chasing the operator! They are also slow to shut down, once the drive is disengaged you shut down the throttle until it blocks the intake, but it takes a little while to kill, todays health and safety goons would have a fit! but never had a problem in two years with it, who wants to hover when you can annihalate!:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 As a kid we had one at the stables with a trailer fitted. Very powerful would pull five or six of us through a hedge, and frequently did. Can you imagine the uproar of letting kids do things like that now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAPNutter Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hi all, just a quickie; in order to remove the engine on one of these, how does one separate the engine from the generator? I take it there is a coupling, but can't actually see one, unless it's concealed by the clamps holding the generator cooling fan :confused: thanks in anticipation Dave c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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