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Posted

Don't quite follow that - the RNLI is a self funding charitable organisation . All of their running costs are raised through donations with no state contribution whatsoever . Your comment seems to infer the launching of a lifeboat puts a burden on the state economy . Or have I misinterpreted your meaning ?

Posted (edited)

Pound for pound RNLI saves very few people, and most of those it does are idiots who have put themselves at risk.

 

Admittedly it does also save some Seamen, who are in danger through no fault of their own.

 

I personally think that (in some circumstances) RNLI should be able to recover the cost of the operation from the idiot who got himself in trouble.

 

Whether the money comes from central Funds or from Charity, it is not being well spent in a large number of cases.

 

With FIDO, eveyone who was saved was in a situation, not of his own making, and the cost justifies the end.

 

I am not sure this is so for an unprepared amatuer who goes to sea in an inadequate craft, in conditions that are clearly dangerous, without sufficient pre-planning, without safety equipment, charts, navigation equipment, should expect the genrerosity of the Public, to pay for his actions.

 

My comment relates to value for money, and RNLI is a massive organisation, with a lot of resources that are very seldom used, and save relatively few people per year.

Edited by antarmike
Posted
Pound for pound RNLI saves very few people, and most of those it does are idiots who have put themselves at risk.

 

Admittedly it does also save some Seamen, who are in danger through no fault of their own.

 

I personally think that (in some circumstances) RNLI should be able to recover the cost of the operation from the idiot who got himself in trouble.

 

Whether the money comes from central Funds or from Charity, it is not being well spent in a large number of cases.

 

With FIDO, eveyone who was saved was in a situation, not of his own making, and the cost justifies the end.

 

I am not sure this is so for an unprepared amatuer who goes to sea in an inadequate craft, in conditions that are clearly dangerous, without sufficient pre-planning, without safety equipment, charts, navigation equipment, should expect the genrerosity of the Public, to pay for his actions.

 

My comment relates to value for money, and RNLI is a massive organisation, with a lot of resources that are very seldom used, and save relatively few people per year.

 

That could be said of a lot of other organisations which we as taxpayers actually fund Mike ! I for one am very proud of the RNLI as I think it is just about one of the most courageous things a person can do to put themselves at the mercy of the sea to try to save a life ! I am very gratefull that if for some reason I need them I know they will try to help ! We donate incase they are needed by someone not because we will need them !

Posted (edited)

This wan't meant to be political, just a statement of fact. I agree we need the RNLI and I have given to it in the past, but from an economic standpoint, if they were a manufacturing company, the shareholders would be very dissapointed for what they get from their investment. I know you can't value life, and this argument goes onto which drugs to you use on terminaly ill patients, and is it cost effective, I do not mean to denegrate the RNLI, I was mereley agreeing that Fido Had been remarkably good value for money, and was comparing it to other things we accept as being worthwhile.

Edited by antarmike
Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
Posted

When i first decided to go to sea after owning a boat on the thames for a couple of years,the first thing i did was to book a one week course on an ex ww2 50ft trawler,as it turned out this boat was one of the Shetland Bus boats .

Having passed the day skipper course i concidered myself fairly safe to go to sea.

i had been to sea in another nelson 40 and had piloted it from Ely to the solent,we took along a proficient person just in case.On leaving the river at Kings Lynn The conditions worsened and the boat was engulfed in green water.The owner immediately backed off the throttles,a hand came between me and the owner and pushed the throttles to full power.The owner looked back and said he couldnt see.He was told it was the North sea and to push on.The whole of the trip was bad weather it lasted 5days.At the ports we stayed at people were surprised we left to continue our journey.The boat itself gave us no concerns ,so it enabled us to concentrate on our own skills.At times we were down to 7 knots with huge seas on the nose,other times we were surfing downhill at 16 knots not a nec a good thing in a power boat.The point of all this is its all about education.We learnt more in those 5 days than the day skipper course

could of taught us,the combination of the two gave us the confidence to tackle most things we might meet.The RNLI is in favour of education not Legislation.I would agree with this allthough i believe they could do more

to make it happen.Mike speaks from experience i would say when he talks of the idiots that go to sea.I have witnessed them.Whilst at BRighton two power boats fooling around,one narrowly missing me whist reversing into a berth.went out and collided with each other,one boat rode over the top of the other cutting a persons hand off and another was drowned.Worst still the man was killed by his own brother.You cannot train or legislate against these acts.THe RNLI were there to pick up the pieces.Alcohol

was responsable.I have approached the subject with the RNLI about charging for such things as people running out of fuel etc.as i think they should.its not going to happen as it goes against the basic constituation .

I was told that a fair amount of Guilt money is handed over.

When i joined the RNLI it wasnt because i believed in the ideals,it was because selfishly i thought suposing i need help,best join the RNLI.The same as you join the AA.Most boaters just join in case.Its true that the amount of commercial assistance required is small compaired to the private

sector ,its true also that the funds mainly come from the people who end up needing them the most.I think the RNLI should get money from the government for the cover they provide on the river thames,as there is now very little police cover and the enviromental agency have withdrawn allmost all there patrol boats on cost grounds.Also i think where cover is given for beaches in Cornwall for surfers making the place more attractive

local councills shouild dig deep.Andys point about people risking there lives at sea is valid ,but you also have to remember that these people volunteer

for what for them is a chance to play with some very nice Kit,superb training,comradeship. and a feeling of having made a difference.

I wouldnt want to be without them,I wouldnt want the Government to try and do it.But i think in a lot of ways they need to catch up with the modern world,just my opinion.

Have i ever needed them?well there has been ocasion when i have been in a situation where someone else other than me may of called them.

WE managed to get back on our own more than once.

The last time i fell out with the Harbourmaster because i didnt call them

cant win.

We also must remember the coastguard ,helicoptors etc who combined with the other services give us the best in the world.

Mike is correct pound for pound they are very ineficient.i hope they can modernise a bit to redress this .Cheers CW.

Posted

Personally i'm very proud of the RNLI and support them when I can (doing an abseil off the Royal Liver Building in Liverpool for them in May if anyone fancies sponsoring me!). Without them, well, it doesn't bear thinking about. They save lives not just through going out in a boat and rescuing people, but also through making people aware of the dangers, giving out advice and also through the Lifeguard service at beaches. The Coastguard, RAF and RN helicopters can only be in one place at a time, and can't tow boats home or operate in extremely severe conditions (which resulted in the loss of the Solomon Browne lifeboat in 1981 with all 8 crew, and the 8 people it rescued)

Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
Posted
By the way Catweazle, did you know the RNLI used a Nelson on service at Sheerness and Calshot? Still use larger Nelsons as training vessels

 

Calshot Nelson

I did but for a reason i cant remember it wasnt sucessfull.Probably made the same mistake as others and put to small engines in them.they are of course a little narrow.I have never seen them as suitable.Peter designed them to go quick any weather,sculling around waiting in rough seas is not good fun in a nelson.Not slowing down in rough weather is.:-D

thanks for the pic.Cw.

Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
Posted

Had a look in our Nelson archives.The boat they trialled was a Nelson 40.The exact same hull as mine.It was named Earnest William and Elizebeth Hinde,The names of the people who paid the bill.It was built at Bembridge in the same yard as mine.Cost £24.559.12tons 19 knots.Engines Thorneycroft x2 125 hp.these would of been Ford Dorsets i suspect.The Horse power and the speed dont tally,i expect its the speed ,probably 12 knots,as i said before too slow.It would of been what we call the Bembridge submarine at those speeds in bad weather.

We had a similier vessel prior to Horatia,it had twin cummins v8s of 185 hp each,we strugled to get 16 knts.Will check it out further.

Posted

What hasn't been mentioned is that the RNLI also supply qualified Lifegaurds on the shoreline. These people provide a very hands on service. Thier work often seems very banal. Paddle out a few hundred yards and pull in somebody who finds out that their 50 meter school certificate in a swimming pool is no use in the sea. Except if they weren't there the headline would have been 'Local beach claims victim'.

Pontificate as much as you like, until you need them.

Posted

The economic thing applies to other areas not just RNLI, look at other rescue facilities RAF/RN SAR, huge cost, and there to save downed pilots, but generally they rescue hill walkers in flip flops from a snowy crevasse.

Mountain Rescue Teams, whether RAF, Police or charitable funded the cost is high to rescue idiots poorly equipped, or who have extremely poor judgement.

 

Fortunately there are always volunteers who are prepared to go out and do the human thing, rather than sit and count the pennies.

In some instances the cost has to be taken to preserve life.

 

But as previously mentioned, i am sure some practices could be fine tuned to make sure money is well spent.

Posted

Here we go, just had a look on the Braemar mountain rescue site, my local MRT, and this is the sort of thing they get:-

 

"Party of three walkers became lost in poor visibility while walking from Glen Esk to Mount Keen as they had no map or compass. They descended to Glen Tanar by mistake and tried to retrace their route however were overtaken by darkness and called for help using a mobile telephone. They were instructed to return to Glen Tanar where they were picked up by members of Grampian Police and Braemar MRT's."

 

Now you might think it was summer, but no, it was the end of January,(dark by 4:00) the rescue involved 3 MRT personnell a Landrover and 13 hours. If the mobile phone didnt have a signal, do you get the feeling that nobody would of known they were gone...

They should of left them to it and removed them from the gene pool.

Posted

As for some of the murky end of the gene pool Adam absolutley correct! Main trouble is in this country we have an altruistic outlook, there are people willing to risk themselves to save those less worthwhile. They would argue tooth and nail about insurance and payments, the benificieraies of there work often don't care!

Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
Posted
What hasn't been mentioned is that the RNLI also supply qualified Lifegaurds on the shoreline. .

I did mention this Tony,i think local authotities should provide the service.As they dont they should cough up a lot more,they benefit from the xtra visitors who choose to go because of the increased safety

I have just had the latest imfo from the RNLI,they are giving me the opportunity to help rebuild 35 lifeboat stations,The new lifeboat wont fit in some of them .:shocked:Some of the older ones are in need of updating.

I am beginig to wonder if they are as hardup as they keep telling me.:-D

  • 7 years later...
Posted
I did mention this Tony,i think local authotities should provide the service.As they dont they should cough up a lot more,they benefit from the xtra visitors who choose to go because of the increased safety

I have just had the latest imfo from the RNLI,they are giving me the opportunity to help rebuild 35 lifeboat stations,The new lifeboat wont fit in some of them .:shocked:Some of the older ones are in need of updating.

I am beginig to wonder if they are as hardup as they keep telling me.:-D

 

All, it is worth reading some of the RNLI histories, especially Never Turn Back. I agree with the RNLI philosophy of not charging - else people see the pound signs and wait until danger has increased before calling for help which can increase the dnger to the crews and increase risk of loss of life. Rather get out there in time to save someone and not wish what could have been if you went earlier. I speak as someone who normally drags in a number of boats each year (16 in last year's Cowes week where I helped out with safety). Very very few of them don't know what they are doing, mostly they have gear failure or the wind dies or kicks up the other way. And the Union Star, that the brave men of Penlee went out to rescue in Solomon Browne, was a commercial vessel. Note the Coastguard Emergency Towing Vessels aren't cheap either, but preventing another Torrey Canyon/Braer etc is probably not meaningfully quantifiable in financial terms. Finally, I am in awe of what the RNLI volunteers do - so please lets support them, not question them.

 

T

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