abn deuce Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 If your into or would like to learn how the logistic of battlefield recovery and replacements of Armoured Vehicles in WWII operated , and along with the dangers of traveling between the front lines each morning and the battalion headquarters some 30-40 miles away each night, This book puts the process involved in a well written book . Its not simply a book of numbers . Its the need for the Army to know precisely how many tanks and armoured vehicles have been damaged ,<and recoverable> from those that are damaged beyond repair . Its amazing how many were recovered and put back into battle in an amazingly short time . The author learned well the short comings of the Sherman's and the strengths of the German armour they fought .316 pages with 10 pages of bw photographs the story of the authors experiences from the Normandy beaches on D+28 to Marseilles at the end of the war. written by Belton Y. Cooper published by Presido Press ISBN 0-89141-670-6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEnfield Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Sounds like its an interesting, maybe's at times also harrowing read. That front cover pic, looks like the guy on pacific is wearing a beret, :? (although, it could be just the way illustration is produced); Didn't think recovery guys in US army wore berets........... :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 The cover photo on the paperback edition is different I ll post that soon . . I think the soldiers in both photo's are wearing Jeep Cap's. the soldier in the second photo right side is wearing a helmet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 one little note he mentions in the book about the maintenance of two -and -a- half- ton GMC trucks, moving over a combination of highways and cross -country in six wheel drive ,would have a new engine approximately every ten thousand miles and that 2 1/2 was the load rating , they normally carried anywhere from five to eight tons ! while in the hard cover edition he said they carried 4 to 10 tons , seems to have been a bit of re-writting . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 The top picture is a perfect example of why I have kept banging on (if you'll pardon the pun) about tank crews painting out white stars / crosses etc which make perfect aiming points: two good hits on the white star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Talking about M4 aiming marks, the same happened when the extra armour was welded on as picture 1, it gave the germans a good idea where to aim. The extra armour was welded on the outside of the ammo bins. Baz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 All very True ,he describes the mechanics taking a spent German anti tank round found inside of a Sherman tank and fitting it into the hole it made in the turret , then welding it to patch the hull and grinding it flush inside and out and repainting to hide the repair due to the superstions of new crews of getting a previously knock out tank . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 All very True ,he describes the mechanics taking a spent German anti tank round found inside of a Sherman tank and fitting it into the hole it made in the turret , then welding it to patch the hull and grinding it flush inside and out and repainting to hide the repair due to the superstions of new crews of getting a previously knock out tank . Now that is fascinating! That said, I was surprised to find a fairly-intact Jagdpanther at the IWM last month. And even more surprised to see that it had been knocked out in combat: a nice group of two shots just inches apart penetrating the crew compartment and another in the engine compartment. The holes looked bigger than 75mm so my guess is it was outflanked by a troop of Comets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 That said, I was surprised to find a fairly-intact Jagdpanther at the IWM last month. And even more surprised to see that it had been knocked out in combat: a nice group of two shots just inches apart penetrating the crew compartment and another in the engine compartment. The holes looked bigger than 75mm so my guess is it was outflanked by a troop of Comets. Comet fires a 3" projectile (76mm). It's called a 77mm but only to differentiate the ammo from other similar rounds. I had a feeling it was knocked out by a 6pr AT gun but that may be a wrong memory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Comet fires a 3" projectile (76mm). It's called a 77mm but only to differentiate the ammo from other similar rounds. I had a feeling it was knocked out by a 6pr AT gun but that may be a wrong memory! Course it did. Just call me Dick for short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Are you sure it was a 6 pdr, I thought 17 pdrs were used by then. Baz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Are you sure it was a 6 pdr, I thought 17 pdrs were used by then. Baz. I'd agree with that. The 77mm was essentially a 17pdr anyway AFAIK, and like I say, the holes were BIG. Though on reflection maybe no more than 3" - I didn't have a ruler with me. ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Sounds like a must have read. Jack - You know you wanted to buy everyone on the forum a Christmas present - Can I have hard back please. :-D Thanks mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yes, I'd like this one as a christmas present too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 The 6 pr was more an infantry weapon, the 17 pr was a Royal Artillery piece. With APDS, the 6 pr was a very capable AT weapon and remained in British use for years. I'm not saying the Jagdpanther was knocked out by a 6 pr..... Mind you, as the Panther series side armour is only 40mm (much the same as a Sherman), anything could have done it. As for the similarities between 17 pr and 77mm, they do share the projectiles but that is all. The 77mm uses the WW1 3" 20 cwt AA shell cartriage which is a lot smaller than the 17 pr and the tube is shorter than the 17 pr as well. The balistic performance was not so different though. Both very good guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 quality posts. Ta. Is that the cutaway Jagdpanther?????? Or a different one???? The book looks good. Good calls all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 One of his missions near the end of the war was to make field modification to the Super M26 Pershing M26A1E2 on the test firing of the 90MM cannon at a German Jagdpanzer IV assult gun that was positioned 1 1/2 miles away with it facing them that " the sparks shot about 60 feet into the air the projectile penetrated four inches of armour , went through a five inch final drive dif shaft,the fighting compartment , and the rear partition of the fighting compartment, penetrated the four and a half inch crankshaft of the mayback engine and the one inch rear armour and dug itself into the ground so deep that we could not locate it " he also goes thru the field upgrades to the sherman .....so a number of items that I think the members of this forum will like to learn about . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 quality posts. Ta. Is that the cutaway Jagdpanther?????? Or a different one???? The book looks good. Good calls all round. Yes, it's the cutaway. But it was interesting that they cut away the side that hadn't been smacked by three AP rounds. I also found it disappointing that, viewed from the gallery above, all the vision equipment and hatch covers were absent and boarded up. You can't have everything I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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