Adrian Dwyer Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) Not a flyers Irvin or B3, I'm thinking; and it seems to have bulgy pockets. Was this RAC issue or a private purchase? I've seen similar images but never been able to pin down the jacket. It is being worn by the cartoonist (and war correspondent) 'Giles' What are we thinking? A (Photo source - © IWM BU 4925) - The Express cartoonist Giles sketches as Cromwell tank crewmen work on their vehicles, 1 May 1945. Sgt. Hardy, No. 5 Army Film and Photo Section, Army Film and Photographic Unit Edited July 10 by Adrian Dwyer additional info 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rootes75 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I'm thinking for a start its a brilliant photo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 15 minutes ago, Rootes75 said: I'm thinking for a start its a brilliant photo. Couldn't agree more! Superbly posed whilst simultaneously natural: filthy covies, in the mud, under the panzer. Happy days. Looking back on the family collection of Giles annuals from the '50s onward, I can now see how the man got such a feel for the post-war army. I remain intensely envious of his jacket (whatever it is!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garys39 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 And what about his boots ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 (edited) 12 minutes ago, garys39 said: And what about his boots ? One source suggested they were borrowed from a fireman. Pretty sure brown boots were not typical of that service. This does, of course, assume the post-war colourization is accurate. The boots are different in tone to the RAC black beret, for example. <https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205203337> Edited July 10 by Adrian Dwyer bw image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 From an excellent blog from the University of Kent <https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/specialcollections/tag/carl-giles/>, I wonder if George's jacket is a nod to his war service apparel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 That jacket, again? <https://www.original-political-cartoon.com/cartoon-history/carl-giles-britains-greatest-social-cartoonist/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 (edited) Also from IWM <https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205216961>. That jacket and those boots! Edited July 10 by Adrian Dwyer link 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 So, central zip: a bit like a B3 but not a B3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 So, my money is on the last sheepskin flying jacket produced by the US in WW2: the ANJ-4 <https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/259547-william-a-carleton-anj-4-jacket/> Do let me know if you think I'm wrong! Did British tank crews have anything similar? All the best. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 You can't trust colourization AT ALL. It is sad that it has become so commonplace as it distorts history and, in a generation or two's time, no one will know what the real colours were and will simply believe what they see. Most of it comes from the USA so brown boots are all too commonly applied to British soldiers because they assume, perfectly naturally, that other armies dressed similarly to their own- which is true, of course but only to a degree. There is a popular picture of a rifleman from 43 Wessex Div which has been colourized - the whole top layer of wooden furniture is coloured black as the colourizer clearly thought it was the exposed barrel. It ought to be banned! The same problem exists in the modelling world and in modern paintings of WW2 subjects - very few seem to be able to manage to get the colour of British BD correct and nearly all the vehicles are too light in shade. But, yes, cracking pictures full of interesting details (no studs on the soles of tank crew boots, for example) and Giles, of course, is beloved by generations who were brought up on his Christmas annuals! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 Morning - you make a very good point. In the BW image, the dusty boots of the crew look a very similar tone/shade to Giles' boots. Looking more closely, I would also suspect the jacket is a much darker brown: almost a certainty if it is the US ANJ-4. So, today's task: go through the loft and see if any on the Giles annuals have survived the numerous house moves! All the best. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 And lastly, just for interest . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 On 7/10/2024 at 10:25 PM, 10FM68 said: You can't trust colourization AT ALL. It is sad that it has become so commonplace as it distorts history and, in a generation or two's time, no one will know what the real colours were and will simply believe what they see. Most of it comes from the USA so brown boots are all too commonly applied to British soldiers because they assume, perfectly naturally, that other armies dressed similarly to their own- which is true, of course but only to a degree. There is a popular picture of a rifleman from 43 Wessex Div which has been colourized - the whole top layer of wooden furniture is coloured black as the colourizer clearly thought it was the exposed barrel. It ought to be banned! The same problem exists in the modelling world and in modern paintings of WW2 subjects - very few seem to be able to manage to get the colour of British BD correct and nearly all the vehicles are too light in shade. But, yes, cracking pictures full of interesting details (no studs on the soles of tank crew boots, for example) and Giles, of course, is beloved by generations who were brought up on his Christmas annuals! Now this has been raised, I can't help but think many 'coulourised' images from WW2 are horribly misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 (edited) And how about the colourised films from ww1 and ww2 on discovery channel and others...i hate it... Edited July 13 by Citroman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 I suspect, collectively, people with an active interest in the subject matter are not the target audience: so fidelity is not always the colourist's priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 I had an AN-J-4 jacket many years ago and it does look very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 16 hours ago, Jessie The Jeep said: I had an AN-J-4 jacket many years ago and it does look very similar. On ebay: very tempted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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