Ex RAF Land Rover Paintwork?

[RAAF]

I am trying to establish what colours my Series 2 SWB 1959 ex RAF Land Rover would have originally been painted. I have contacted the RAF Museum but they have not been able to assist me with this. I have not been able to trace another one of this variant or a photo of one in service. 

I believe it may have had a hard top fitted rather than a canvas roof and that this may have been painted yellow, with the rest of the vehicle being painted RAF blue/grey.  Any information you can provide or a photo of one  would be greatly received.

The original RAF registration number is believed to be: 66 AA 40

The RAF contract no: KL/H/0252

Section and Ref: 16A/2433 truck Airfield Lighting Maintenance Land Rover Series II

The British Motor Museum confirms that it was dispatched by Land Rover to RAF Ercall.

Thank you for your help.

[ruxy]

Normally a  S2  88" would be a Rover 6  (a S2A  88" would be a Rover 8 or 10).  I doubt it was a Rover 6 as I think it was more a straight civilian BASIC spec..

It does have 'stacked' front light fittings indicating a military spec. however over 60+ years wing panels do get changed.   Presently I can't lock on to the Contract / Item No.  

FV18003 was this  10 cwt  4x4 truck / VAN  airfield lighting maintenance  vehicle in Series One form kitted for a crew of four.   (Rover 3  , 86" w.b.)  134 vehicles supplied to RAF in 1955.  I can't fully remember but the S2 'run-on' may have been 4x2  , possibly provided by Ministry of Supply  (Ex-C.D. top-up)

It would IMHO have been a  Contract Code  B  - meaning a  BASIC  civilian spec.  with a few military bolt-on (Optional Parts - such as a tin-top &  cat-flap)  + a few one-off military spec. parts such as a  single 'dickie' seat in the tub - basic ladder rack & extension ladder.  It would  probably have a NSN  of  -  2310-99-893-3439 or one very near.  Your chassis No. is probably in the range  141100963 to 141102369   or near  ?

Part of the nomenclature could have included  CL  (ComerciaL)   and ISTR Army actually allocated a VRM  --CL--  ,  CL semed to be extinguished for all S2A military production but was reactivated for S3  (but not inclued in VRM).

Perimeter track work + airside - I would say it probably was all yellow  ,  airside would normally be roof = yellow.

 

Bit of a strange one - sorry can't assist any more.

 

[Noel7]

According to Taylor and Fletcher "British Military Land Rovers", contract KL/H/0252 covered:

66AA27 - 66AA36     1410-00049-58      RHD Airfield Lighting

66AA37 - 66AA47     1410-00392-402    RHD GS

They show the 1410 code as being for the period 9/59 to 7/60.

Their only comment on colour for the 1,138 RAF Mk.6 is "the majority were delivered in the service's Blue-Grey livery, there were also examples in Bronze Green as early as 1959." [They include a photgraph of 14AA84 in Blue-Grey with a blue soft-top and a yellow bonnet.]

I hope this is of some use to you.

[ruxy]

I have the book - just need to find it  !

Paint colour  -   I tend to look where people fail to rub down prior to brush/roller or spray - because it's out of sight.   Cover plates on dash - remove ,  seat base / bulkhead /tub   - often original paint extanct.  Few places underbonnet / firewall. 

 

You are certain to find Solihull factory evidence somewhere.  I have known hoods to be painted yellow on roof - sometimes they have a vinyl roof glazing for 1/3 to 1/2 approx. area,   this is not just with glider tugs.

[ruxy]

Your grille mesh has a aperture for bonnet release - this is civvy,  I think S2 were like S2A  no bonnet release - as reliant on a pair of spring-loaded bonnet catches & the weight of the spare tyre helped.  Your razor edge bonnet - does it have trace of spare mounting  ?    

Is your tub civvy or military - if the bulkhead/transom has facilityto secure the spare wheel - that's more civvy.  If not but has a hook spine thing to secure a T bolt - then that is a military feature to mount a 1/2 Jerry for engine L.O.

 

I think your truck is a Solihull /RAF  AMALGAM  ,  it may have RAF nomenclature  but it does seem a civvy basic utility, a true military spec. has many more fittings.  For base facilities - a " cost-cutter".   I stored a front axle tube (no diff.) for  4x2 and IIRC it was for a early S2A  Ex-RAF   & as strange as it may seem  ISTR it had twin petrol tanks.  The tube was just that with a pipe-flange each end to bolt the chrome swivel housings , I still have it but it's under 2ft of concrete along with a few dismantled leaf springs for riverbank anti-flood reinforcement.

[RAAF]

13 hours ago, ruxy said:

Normally a  S2  88" would be a Rover 6  (a S2A  88" would be a Rover 8 or 10).  I doubt it was a Rover 6 as I think it was more a straight civilian BASIC spec..

It does have 'stacked' front light fittings indicating a military spec. however over 60+ years wing panels do get changed.   Presently I can't lock on to the Contract / Item No.  

FV18003 was this  10 cwt  4x4 truck / VAN  airfield lighting maintenance  vehicle in Series One form kitted for a crew of four.   (Rover 3  , 86" w.b.)  134 vehicles supplied to RAF in 1955.  I can't fully remember but the S2 'run-on' may have been 4x2  , possibly provided by Ministry of Supply  (Ex-C.D. top-up)

It would IMHO have been a  Contract Code  B  - meaning a  BASIC  civilian spec.  with a few military bolt-on (Optional Parts - such as a tin-top &  cat-flap)  + a few one-off military spec. parts such as a  single 'dickie' seat in the tub - basic ladder rack & extension ladder.  It would  probably have a NSN  of  -  2310-99-893-3439 or one very near.  Your chassis No. is probably in the range  141100963 to 141102369   or near  ?

Part of the nomenclature could have included  CL  (ComerciaL)   and ISTR Army actually allocated a VRM  --CL--  ,  CL semed to be extinguished for all S2A military production but was reactivated for S3  (but not inclued in VRM).

Perimeter track work + airside - I would say it probably was all yellow  ,  airside would normally be roof = yellow.

 

Bit of a strange one - sorry can't assist any more.

 

[RAAF]

12 hours ago, Noel7 said:

According to Taylor and Fletcher "British Military Land Rovers", contract KL/H/0252 covered:

66AA27 - 66AA36     1410-00049-58      RHD Airfield Lighting

66AA37 - 66AA47     1410-00392-402    RHD GS

They show the 1410 code as being for the period 9/59 to 7/60.

Their only comment on colour for the 1,138 RAF Mk.6 is "the majority were delivered in the service's Blue-Grey livery, there were also examples in Bronze Green as early as 1959." [They include a photgraph of 14AA84 in Blue-Grey with a blue soft-top and a yellow bonnet.]

I hope this is of some use to you.

 

[ted angus]

When the RAF / Air ministry ceased to have responsibility for its real estate, some of its vehicles and plant were transferred to the Ministry of Public Buildings and Works  (MPBW) ** FUL is part of a large block allocated to the MPBW. I have 37 FUL on my database as a hardtop. Over the years there has been much discussion as to the colour schemes of these airfield lighting trucks, in addition to RAF B/G with yellow, red and white was also used for vehicles whose primary task was in the active flying areas ie the runway, its approaches, taxiways and flight lines.

 

 

 

 

[RAAF]

19 minutes ago, ted angus said:

When the RAF / Air ministry ceased to have responsibility for its real estate, some of its vehicles and plant were transferred to the Ministry of Public Buildings and Works  (MPBW) ** FUL is part of a large block allocated to the MPBW. I have 37 FUL on my database as a hardtop. Over the years there has been much discussion as to the colour schemes of these airfield lighting trucks, in addition to RAF B/G with yellow, red and white was also used for vehicles whose primary task was in the active flying areas ie the runway, its approaches, taxiways and flight lines.

19 minutes ago, ted angus said:

Thank Ted,

I believe my landy was allocated to the MPBW in 1962. Do you know if they held any records of vehicles? Are you aware of any other Series II Airfield Lighting trucks still in existence? 

 

 

 

 

[ruxy]

1 hour ago, ted angus said:

When the RAF / Air ministry ceased to have responsibility for its real estate, some of its vehicles and plant were transferred to the Ministry of Public Buildings and Works  (MPBW) ** FUL is part of a large block allocated to the MPBW. I have 37 FUL on my database as a hardtop. Over the years there has been much discussion as to the colour schemes of these airfield lighting trucks, in addition to RAF B/G with yellow, red and white was also used for vehicles whose primary task was in the active flying areas ie the runway, its approaches, taxiways and flight lines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That would account for the very short service life with RAF  -  1959 to March 1963 when it received civvy First Registration.

https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/VehicleFound?locale=en

[ted angus]

19 hours ago, RAAF said:

 

Afraid i cannot give any info re mpbw records or the existance of other examples. The info i have was taken from auction catalogues whilst primarily researching  aux fire service and cd vehicles

[ruxy]

 

[wally dugan]

On the question of the ERM  CL only two contracts were issued  to land rovers  6/v/27756 For car utility light 4x2 and KL/H 0100 GS cargo 4x4

[10FM68]

2 hours ago, wally dugan said:

On the question of the ERM  CL only two contracts were issued  to land rovers  6/v/27756 For car utility light 4x2 and KL/H 0100 GS cargo 4x4

Yes, there is no connection between the ERM --CL-- and 'Commercial' - I have photos of both Bedford RL and Millie Mk1 s with CL plates - it was, I understand, merely the ERM for contract year 58/59.  Equally ERM --CT-- wasn't used for 'Combat' (or at all in fact) and 'GS' was contract year 77/78

[ruxy]

20 minutes ago, 10FM68 said:

Yes, there is no connection between the ERM --CL-- and 'Commercial' - I have photos of both Bedford RL and Millie Mk1 s with CL plates - it was, I understand, merely the ERM for contract year 58/59.  Equally ERM --CT-- wasn't used for 'Combat' (or at all in fact) and 'GS' was contract year 77/78

As far as I am aware  -  roughly  (financial year) as they fall in step  :-

GB =  74/75   GJ  =  76  ,  77?   GN  = 77 ,   GT  =  78/79  ,  GX  =  77 / 78    then it was   HF  =  79, 80?   ,   HG =  80,  HH - 80 , 81?   HJ  =  81?     etc.

Don't recall any  'GS'  Contract Year   ?

[Richard Farrant]

GS was allocated to 'A' Vehicles, although not sure if it was actually used.

[wally dugan]

the ERM  GS  was allocated for the years 1977/1978 along with  GT GX  GU and GV

[Noel7]

3 hours ago, wally dugan said:

On the question of the ERM  CL only two contracts were issued  to land rovers  6/v/27756 For car utility light 4x2 and KL/H 0100 GS cargo 4x4

From BMLR again:

17CL48 to 20CL22   Land Rover Series 2 Mark 6 ½ Ton 4x2   6/VEH/27756

25CL50 to 25CL99   Land Rover Mk 7 Station Wagon FFW  6/VEH/28020

35CL21 to 35CL40    Land Rover Mk 7 cargo with tilt  KL/H/0100

9 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said:

GS was allocated to 'A' Vehicles, although not sure if it was actually used.

I have a reference which shows some Spartans carried nnGSnn series low numbers. It's not entirely reliable though and not a period I know anything about otherwise.

[ruxy]

If only I could remember to my memory all this  !

[ruxy]

1 hour ago, wally dugan said:

the ERM  GS  was allocated for the years 1977/1978 along with  GT GX  GU and GV

Have you known of any  ERM  - GS  dated  1977/78  ?

[ruxy]

1 hour ago, Noel7 said:

From BMLR again:

17CL48 to 20CL22   Land Rover Series 2 Mark 6 ½ Ton 4x2   6/VEH/27756

25CL50 to 25CL99   Land Rover Mk 7 Station Wagon FFW  6/VEH/28020

35CL21 to 35CL40    Land Rover Mk 7 cargo with tilt  KL/H/0100

I have a reference which shows some Spartans carried nnGSnn series low numbers. It's not entirely reliable though and not a period I know anything about otherwise.

The mentioned ERM Contract(s)  -  do you know of their  DIS  years  ?

[wally dugan]

As to the ERM GS as l said it was allocated for the financial year  1977/78  for armoured vehicles l cannot say if it was used but can find out tomorrow as to the dates on the CL 1958/59

[10FM68]

1 hour ago, ruxy said:

The mentioned ERM Contract(s)  -  do you know of their  DIS  years  ?

The DIS dates will be subsequent to the contract dates.  Sometimes one will follow the other quite quickly, particularly if of a large batch from a major manufacturer.  Sometimes there can be lengthy separation - an example, I think, is the --BM-- registrations for Leyland Martian recovery vehicles which, according to their ERMs would have entered service soon after 1952/53, but, actually appeared in service in 1961/62.  Some 1 Tonne Land Rovers on FL were similarly late appearing as well, I think, but to what extent I can't remember.  Some had been held on temporary --CC-- registrations (--CC-- originally being 1958/59 A vehicles), but, in their case they were registered as 'chassis cabs' in the 70s.  For the --CL-- Bedfords and Millies, there is little to suggest there was any undue delay, so a year or two at the most, probably.  My --HF-- Land Rover was DIS in 79 off a contract date of 78/79 - so fairly typical of most, I expect.  --GS-- were A vehicles, --GT-- B and --GU-- and --GV-- C vehicles - there are plenty of photos of all of the B & C vehicles fro those contract dates around - I haven't looked for A vehicles with --GS-- as that isn't a particular area of interest of mine..

[10FM68]

2 hours ago, Noel7 said:

From BMLR again:

17CL48 to 20CL22   Land Rover Series 2 Mark 6 ½ Ton 4x2   6/VEH/27756

25CL50 to 25CL99   Land Rover Mk 7 Station Wagon FFW  6/VEH/28020

35CL21 to 35CL40    Land Rover Mk 7 cargo with tilt  KL/H/0100

I have a reference which shows some Spartans carried nnGSnn series low numbers. It's not entirely reliable though and not a period I know anything about otherwise.

I had a look through Merlin just now and there is indeed a small batch of Spartans from 00GS01 and a Samaritan with DIS's of 1982 - so a 2-4 year wait from the contract date - probably about right for A vehicles which would have been a lot slower off the production line than the --GT-- Bedfords, for example.

[rupert condick]

Hi

I hd an Ex RAF Lightweight Landcover from RAF Lossiemouth, it was weapons yellow exterior,

sorry cannot remember the interior.

When worked at RNAS Yeovilton the Rascal truck was also weapons yellow.