10FM68 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Browsing through old threads I came across this photo originally posted by rnixartillery of the crew of an Oxford 6 Pdr [PR in photo] ATG. I was wondering, though, what are they wearing? Are they actually British or could they be, for example, Australian? Presumably it is a post-war photo, but they seem to be wearing pre-war service dress or something similar with collar dogs and, possibly, brass buttons, carrying SMLE No1 rifles and wearing Mk2 helmets, though the chap on the right seems to have a Sten machine carbine. There is also a 22 mortar and a Bren by the look of it.. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 The Oxford Carrier did not get into service until the late 1940's, but did see active service in Korea where it apparently performed well. I think most went up for disposal in late 1950's. I have seen this photo before and thought it may have been taken in Korea. Very much doubt any other country had them in service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 A brief history of the Oxford Carrier:- https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/UK/oxford-carrier.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted December 28, 2023 Author Share Posted December 28, 2023 Thanks both, but the mystery of their uniforms (and turnout, come to that), remains unsolved. Very odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 I actually have recent experience in working on a CT20 Oxford Carrier and have done some research on it. The link in the previous post is not quite correct on some details. It was actually designed by the Wolseley motor company, but when it went into production it was built by the MG Car Company at Abingdon. Many of the parts have inspectors stamps on them of the octagon shape of the MG logo. By the time it was into production it was outdated by the suspension design as the decision had been made to go for torsion bars and not the old Horstmann design, hence why the Cambridge Carrier was built in small numbers for trials in several different role guises. The Cambridgen never went into full production and tracked carriers were not persued again until the early 1960's when the FV430 went into production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted December 28, 2023 Author Share Posted December 28, 2023 Could the Australians have used them in Korea? And, if so, were the Australians still in SD by then or had they adopted BD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 A number of oxford carriers were sold in 1959 with numbers ZT and ZU at RUDDINGTON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted December 28, 2023 Author Share Posted December 28, 2023 Sorry, this thread isn't about the Oxford Carrier per se, it is about the uniforms of the crew so I have retitled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 (edited) Surely, there must be someone on this Forum who has an idea about the uniforms worn by those below. I can't think they're British as they're in SD rather than BD, which would be very odd for this period. So, if they aren't British, then who can they be? Did other Commonwealth troops get issued with Oxfords in Korea? They aren't Irish, I'm sure, nor likely to be 'other European'. They have collar dogs and brass buttons, they're wearing '37 Pattern webbing, but in an unusual shade, the chap with the Sten (or is it a Sten? Is the magazine coming out of the top rather than the side?) seems to be bereft of anklets or putteesthey are particularly scruffy for a demonstration photo... So what's the answer? My hunch is Australian. Edited January 20 by 10FM68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I would agree with your interpretation of Australian troops. The Australians may have been considering acquiring some or just troops on an exchange visit / training in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 Thanks for that. I do think it looks more like an Owen gun than a Sten, certainly, but where they are, I don't know - I think Korea rather than UK, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Could it be the Puckapunyal training area in Australia......?? See a recent photo from google maps https://www.google.com/maps/place/Puckapunyal+VIC+3662,+Australia/@-36.9976498,145.0262172,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipNhJaa5Ug_nPyNNr9Z0IEvkHKOsHM8m4ZZv4sAU!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNhJaa5Ug_nPyNNr9Z0IEvkHKOsHM8m4ZZv4sAU%3Dw203-h152-k-no!7i3648!8i2736!4m7!3m6!1s0x6ad787f46b64d9ad:0x40579a430a08270!8m2!3d-36.9961769!4d145.0272127!10e5!16zL20vMGJmOXB5?entry=ttu# Wikipedia mentions that the range was the training centre for the National Service recruits in the 1950's and 60's. NS service personnel might not be as smart as a demonstration team..... The trees and hills definitely feel Australian. The officers SMG certainly could be a Owen. These were still in use in the late 60's with the Australian deployment to Vietnam. Edited January 20 by Tarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 It certainly could be, couldn't it? Perhaps the Australians trialled one or two. I rather think, though, that this photo isn't about the carrier itself, but about the team. I see they have everything on display: the Bren, the mortar, the ammunition, of course and, presumably, at the far right, the 6Pdr itself. I suppose the critical question is when the Australians stopped wearing SD. Do you think that is an officer on the right? I would have expected him to be wearing officers' SD were that the case. Could he merely be the driver with the Corporal the Section Commander on the left of the photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) On 12/28/2023 at 6:49 PM, 10FM68 said: Browsing through old threads I came across this photo originally posted by rnixartillery of the crew of an Oxford 6 Pdr [PR in photo] ATG. I was wondering, though, what are they wearing? Are they actually British or could they be, for example, Australian? Presumably it is a post-war photo, but they seem to be wearing pre-war service dress or something similar with collar dogs and, possibly, brass buttons, carrying SMLE No1 rifles and wearing Mk2 helmets, though the chap on the right seems to have a Sten machine carbine. There is also a 22 mortar and a Bren by the look of it.. Any ideas? Edited January 21 by Adrian Dwyer duplication Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 hours ago, 10FM68 said: It certainly could be, couldn't it? Perhaps the Australians trialled one or two. I rather think, though, that this photo isn't about the carrier itself, but about the team. I see they have everything on display: the Bren, the mortar, the ammunition, of course and, presumably, at the far right, the 6Pdr itself. I suppose the critical question is when the Australians stopped wearing SD. Do you think that is an officer on the right? I would have expected him to be wearing officers' SD were that the case. Could he merely be the driver with the Corporal the Section Commander on the left of the photo? My mistake - it could be the driver with the SMG - I was thinking that the senior NCO would be armed with the SMG The SD was definitely gone by '65/66 with the Vietnam deployment. The FAL was in use by that point and the heavy barrel version replaced the Bren as the section LMG. Maybe the Oxford carriers end up back in Australia after the Korean war...... Its worth noting that the link to the photo in Google maps also has a lot of pictures of the exhibits at the Armor museum at the former Puckapunyal armour centre......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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