SebBrady Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) Afternoon all, Today I got a lovely photoprint of an L60 engine with a twin turbocharger set up, I know that rolls royce in the mid 80s were missing with a K60T and K40T project which makes for some fascinating reading in its own right, but I have not come across anything in my time reading through archive documents or manuals that hints towards an L60 with a turbocharger or if it ever made it past a concept? Has anyone ever heard of got knowledge of this, would be fascinating to learn more of. For those who like engines, enjoy the attachment! Edited March 7, 2023 by SebBrady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Seb - Do you have any information on the K60T? The only reference I've ever seen was in a document in the Tank Museum library that referred to a proposed pre-Bulldog upgrade for the FV432s. It would have had a K60T engine and a steering box that allowed neutral turns. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I recall seeing a turbocharged K60 engine on the Rolls Royce stand at a British Army Equipment Exhibition at Rushmoor in possibly the late 80;s. I did pick up a brochure showing the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Not shown on the print but I assume it still had a supercharger/blower to aid starting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Scavenge blown by 2 lobe Roots type blower, trials with a 3 lobe. These are the days before screw type blowers. 19 lts for up to 600 bhp target impressive for its time, but now would expect 750 plus from 16 lts 4 stroke. But as with the Napier Deltic and Foden FD6 also the Tillings and StephensTS3 engine a light weight compact engine with high power output was the goal. Designers trying to get the proverbial quart from a pint pot. GM engines used a blower and turbocharger set up, but still could not get the emissions down to modern acceptable levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Later Chieftain versions were 750bhp with a claimed service life of 4000 miles. It was also designed as a multifuel power unit but took years of development to rectify the liner seals and other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 They just got it sorted at the end of its service life. Multi fuel is a whole other engineering world. Liner seals or the lack of are still a problem no matter what make of engine. A reciprocating engine that is expected to run at max revs and power from start up is always going to have a high maintenance/attrition rate, compared to normal use ones. That is were alternative power sources have to be looked at but they come with their own problems. I am sure that I read somewhere that the Chieftains gave better availability in the first gulf war than the Challengers. I wonder which mark of L60 they were fitted with, and why that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 My understanding, from nearly buying an ex Gulf War 1 Chieftain ARRV is that they were fitted with Red Top L60s, Mk.13 I think? Andy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 hour ago, andym said: My understanding, from nearly buying an ex Gulf War 1 Chieftain ARRV is that they were fitted with Red Top L60s, Mk.13 I think? Andy Correct if Wiki is to be believed, Mk13 looks like the final incarnation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebBrady Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 On 3/7/2023 at 3:35 PM, andym said: Seb - Do you have any information on the K60T? The only reference I've ever seen was in a document in the Tank Museum library that referred to a proposed pre-Bulldog upgrade for the FV432s. It would have had a K60T engine and a steering box that allowed neutral turns. Andy Andy - What information are you after? I've got some documents that I got from Rolls Royce after finding out about the K60T from the tank museum. It is fairly basic information but has some more detailed testbed information about performance compared to that of the K60 but still married to the same transmission. On 3/8/2023 at 11:28 AM, radiomike7 said: Not shown on the print but I assume it still had a supercharger/blower to aid starting? Radio - Yeah still did, there's an information leaflet knocking around titled sundance, which I always believed to be the 13A engines. But it does go on to say that sundance also incorporates a 1000bhp version under development, which I am assuming is this thing... Post Totem pole everything was brought up to Mk8 Standard so this was 1975. So easily by 1st Gulf everything was beyond this, some ARRVS were disposed with Mk8s as I have seen a couple of packs taken out of scrapped vehicles to donate to gun tanks, however by 1979 everything was running at least Mk11 in MBTs, to ensure the army deadline of April 1980 for everything running Mk13 in either rebuilt or new build configuration. Well this is according to an army document to Leyland about engine availability... But nothing about the turbocharger! So I do not know if it remained a private venture by Leyland/Rolls post the Sundance program of if the Challenger one stopped the venture. Would be good to see if there are any photographs of one on the test bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Mounting turbochargers in that orientation looks like it would be a world of problems to my eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Working like that they would need specifically designed bearings and impellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Dear All, I remember something about a turbo charged L60 called Sundance and a very similar, if not identical, picture. Curiously, it was something to do with Scammell / Unipower. I believe that this was something to do with QA qualifications although that does sound odd. I would imagine that the porting arrangements in the liners would let out some exhaust first and thus get the turbo running the 'right' way and pushing some inlet air the 'right' way. Once it had started up correctly it would, presumably, not be a problem . The project that I would love to have done would be to fit an L60 to a Centurion / Conqueror. With the semi-auto box the driver can keep the engine working very hard all the time which is not necessarily all positive. Furthermore, the way the box works makes for more or less instant changes. With a manual box, you change gear when convenient which makes it harder to keep the engine working flat out all the time. What would a Cent ARV be like with an L60? Rads still over the gear box. Better access to engine. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 It looks like a supercharger turbo compound set up. same as GM use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 5 hours ago, john1950 said: It looks like a supercharger turbo compound set up. same as GM use. Yes, but not like the other type of turbo compound such as the one used by Scania where one turbo is used as a supercharger and the second one is geared to the crank and produces a small amount of power. I suspect the turbo team at Leyland were still learning as another of their projects was to turbocharge a DT980/981 Hercules with the turbo under the driver's seat some distance from the engine. Needless to say it was not a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) Yes I remember the Scania combo. I don't think they offer it any more. Volvo are now offering that combination. With the L60 the supercharger gives low speed induction air pressure positive flow and when the turbo's get up to speed they take it to the limit. but I notice there is no mention of an intercooler package. This would have put the induction air temperature above the optimum for best power from the package. A standard Leyland 680's favourite trick was to suck the bits of turbo that broke off in and spit them into the silencer. Balancing turbocharger spools in those days was not the science it is today. Roots blowers if the revs get to high suffer from rotors kissing as the lobes elongate. Of coarse there was the Foden FD6 mk V11 4.8 litre which was supercharged and turbocharged but I think they were only around the 225 bhp range. They only had a single turbo. Stretching the memory now. Edited March 11, 2023 by john1950 addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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