QL Driver Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 Hi all, A friend of mine has recently acquired some substantial parts of what's believed to be a c.1915 4 wheeled Knox-Martin tractor and he would like to restore it. Its history is unclear, so we're unsure of whether it saw military service, but it's of the type used for the tank transporters. Information on the Knox seems to be fairly thin on the ground. Does anyone have any leads on technical information, drawings, or parts for a Knox? Thanks, Ed For those unfamiliar with the vehicle, this is essentially what it should look like: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 Is it the one which sold at the Keeley auction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 What a fascinating piece of machinery. This ... http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_843061 is a restored 3-wheeled version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) Have a look in Wheels and Tracks number 25. Quite a good amount of information there. Don't bother with the ATHS or JOT. They have nothing. The odds are stacked against you. Edited May 29, 2016 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted May 29, 2016 Author Share Posted May 29, 2016 Tim - you're correct, it is the Knox part of the Knox/Maudsley yard crane from Keeley's (the idea being to split it back into its constituent vehicles). There is another 3 wheeled Knox tractor at the San Jose Fire Museum - http://www.sjfiremuseum.org/portfolio/1914-knox-martin/ It appears those two are the only complete ones - and the one at the Smithsonian is no longer on display. Thanks for the lead on the Wheels & Tracks issue - I'll pass that on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Here are some photos of the Maudslay/Knox at the sale. It had been dismantled and partially restored. The front of the chassis has been replaced with the Maudslay as you can see here. The Knox chassis is surprisingly short and narrow: Interesting adaption to make them fit together: The rad, engine and gearbox were all Maudslay: There seemed to be a big pile of bits, but were the wheels in a different lot as they did not seem to be with the lorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Tim. Can you upload a sketch of the Knox chassis as it was? I am really struggling to rationalise the description of the chassis on p.13 of W&T #25 with the pictures you have posted. I was intrigued to see the photo of the Keely Bros Maudslay/with Knox rear end on p.15. You can clearly see the brake drum which is also clear in photo no.6 of your postings above. Cheers Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Here is some more information that I found on another website. I cant get my head around this rear spring arrangement. Not seen anything quite like this before: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 Tim - thanks for that lead! I tracked down the "Motor Truck Design & Construction" book that the chassis drawing came from: https://archive.org/stream/motortruckdesign00scharich#page/217/mode/1up I suspect there's useful information in there for anyone restoring American trucks of the era. Based on the evidence at hand, it's quite convincingly a Model 36 rather than Model 35. The 35 was the artic tractor with the separately sprung fifth wheel and chassis, and the Model 36 was a direct haulage tractor. Fortunately the front end that's missing is identical between the two types. I also found large volumes of information on Google Books. Unfortunately in the UK they aren't accessible without some tricks (http://www.strangehistory.net/2014/06/08/problems-accessing-google-books-outside-us/), but there are lots of contemporary journals that have been scanned and I found several technical descriptions of the Knox tractors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handy1882 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I saw this at the sale, and am really pleased someone has taken this on. Best of luck with the restoration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 I also managed to track down the March 1915 copy of Motor Age, via the University of Michigan Library: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015080122008;view=1up;seq=42;skin=mobile The link above gives a clearer version of the line drawing of the side of the tractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Hi all, A friend of mine has recently acquired some substantial parts of what's believed to be a c.1915 4 wheeled Knox-Martin tractor and he would like to restore it. ......... Thanks, Ed So Ed, has your friend yet sorted the Maudslay bits from the Knox bits? Any chance of some photos of the separate piles? The restoration looks like a real challenge to me. And I, for one, would love to watch its progress... Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 So, per Robert's request above, here are the Knox components separated out. Unfortunately I don't have any photos showing the Maudslay side of the pile. Does anyone know where the Matador in the sale went? I've been told there were some Matador parts included in this lot, and so it's suspected some Knox/Maudslay stuff may have gone the other way. The owners would like to rectify that error! Rear Axle and Radius Rods This is the original rear cross member. Drawbar eye and original rear cross member. The chassis and gearbox together. Not the brake drums/hubs in the background. Gearbox internals Number stamped on the brake gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 That's nice to see. I didn't see the Knox box in the auction. Steve and I have been looking at the W&T photo of this vehicle when it was complete and we can see that the Maudlsay radiator is not the one that was fitted at the time. Because the Knox box (in Sox - apologies to Dr Seuss) is in the chassis I presume that was the one that was used when it was last operational. If that is the case did the Maudslay engine, rad and gearbox come from another Maudslay chassis? These appear to be the same as the subsidy pattern, so if anybody has a WD Maudslay chassis they could be used for bringing that back. The truck has always been referred to as a Knox Maudslay, but is the front chassis really a 1920 overtype Maudslay bus chassis, or might it be something else? Just a thought. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) Tim Interesting thoughts. To be honest I've got very little information on the Maudslay side of the equation, but my supposition is that as the vehicle was used as a yard crane, the idea of it being heavily geared down by running through two gearboxes (the Maudsley box followed by the prop shaft to the Knox box) wouldn't be problematic, and to get the power take off for the winch to work, the Knox box would have to still be driven. Based on the cab design it bears a strong resemblance to a 1930-ish Maudslay 5 ton wagon. I found a photo of one via Google where it was fitted with pneumatics and had the cut outs in the cab floor for the wheel arches but haven't been able to find it again. [edit] this isn't the picture but shows the general design: http://www.stilltimecollection.co.uk/detail/29412-tpt-transport-truck-lorry-wagon-maudslay.html Ed Edited June 12, 2016 by QL Driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 It has been nearly a year since the last posting. How is the restoration coming along? On a slightly different matter, with in the boxes of bits were there any RAF Leyland parts? Thanks Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 There is indeed substantial progress... I need to speak to the owner to see what I can share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 So, here's the state of play... A lot has been worked out, and various other components have turned up at Keeley's since the sale. It turns out that the components included in the sale appear to all be Knox (or Maudslay). There are various leads being tracked down to get things together. There's apparently a 1915-ish Knox catalogue out there that from the images available, appears it would clarify some of the details... so that's an item being looked for at the moment. I hope this is of interest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Great work. Look forward to the next instalment. What mechanical parts are missing now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 When I was discussing this yesterday with the owner, one of the remaining questions to be solved is the hydraulic pump for the rear brakes. Apparently it should have a hand lever operated pump to actuate the brakes on the rear axle. As ever, any leads on Knox parts would be appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 Hi Everyone - I thought there might be some interest in these updated photos taken this weekend. As you can see, there's a great deal of progress! I don't have any specific technical updates... but as ever, any new info, parts, drawings, photos, etc would be of interest! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 What is the engine, Ed? It didn't come with one did it? The radiator looks new too. Is that being made up? A bit of a challenge, this one! Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Steve, I don’t have the details on the engine, I’m afraid! The radiator is indeed new. I’ve not seen the Knox in person yet. The thing I was struck by from the photos (and by Dad’s description) is that it’s enormous. The top of the radiator is about 6’ off the ground! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Just worked out what the obscured lettering on the sign behind says: "Appledore for Lydd & New Romney Branch" I'll get my coat (sorry, anorak)....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 58 minutes ago, mtskull said: Just worked out what the obscured lettering on the sign behind says: "Appledore for Lydd & New Romney Branch" I'll get my coat (sorry, anorak)....... That's a coincidence, Appledore station is about 2 miles from where I work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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